[2010CHALLENGER]

now that tax time is over and Uncle Sam has graciously refunded some of my money, i am planning a few underhood mods and would like some input from members who have already done them... i just want to be sure i have all the parts, knowledge, tips & tricks on hand so the build goes as smoothly as possibly...

i had a consultation with Tim at Modular Power House in Rockford Illinois (formerly Mr. Norms) and they will be doing the work... i felt the meeting went very well and feel comfortable and confident i will get the results i am looking for... from the conversation with Tim, he seemed to think that the car would be in the 525-540 rwhp range... :SHOCKED:

as always, after the fact, you always come up with additional questions that you forgot to ask so i wanted to present them to the forum as i know many of the members have already done these mods...

1) 6.1 exhaust manifold swap
Tim said he could probably get ahold of of a near new set of manifolds and mids so hopefully that works out...

A. do i need to order new exhaust manifold bolts? i'm thinking i do but just want to confirm...

B. i think i read on the forum that the factory 6.1 exhaust manifold gaskets are better quality than most aftermarket gaskets... is that true?

C. i read on the forum that the R/T oil dipstick may be different than the 6.1 oil dipstick and may need to be bent or modified so as not to rub or rest on the manifolds... any truth to that? should i order a 6.1 oil dipstick or would i just be wasting money?

D. what size is the 6.1 midpipes? i'm thinking they will have to be reduced in order to fit my Corsa Extreme on my R/T

2) i am planning on doing the 6.4 auto cam swap into my 5.7 auto R/T... in addition to the factory cam, what other pieces or parts should i do... like valve springs, push rods, things like this? can anyone suggest any manufactures or maybe just order through dodge?

3) i am planning on upgrading my 6lb factory supplied magnuson S/C pulley for a 3.10 diameter 8lb pulley... so far i have only come across one vendor located in southern florida that sells them... does anyone know of any other supplier or vendor that may carry them?

***also while the car is being worked on, i am planning on having them do the timing chain recall work... that is actually what has gotten this ball rolling is the recall... i figure if someone has to open up the front of the engine, might as well do a cam swap too...

thanks for taking the time to read all this and hopefully we'll all get a little something out of it... :4-wavey:

 

[bad8nti]

now that tax time is over and Uncle Sam has graciously refunded some of my money, i am planning a few underhood mods and would like some input from members who have already done them... i just want to be sure i have all the parts, knowledge, tips & tricks on hand so the build goes as smoothly as possibly...

i had a consultation with Tim at Modular Power House in Rockford Illinois (formerly Mr. Norms) and they will be doing the work... i felt the meeting went very well and feel comfortable and confident i will get the results i am looking for... from the conversation with Tim, he seemed to think that the car would be in the 525-540 rwhp range... :SHOCKED:

as always, after the fact, you always come up with additional questions that you forgot to ask so i wanted to present them to the forum as i know many of the members have already done these mods...

1) 6.1 exhaust manifold swap
Tim said he could probably get ahold of of a near new set of manifolds and mids so hopefully that works out...

A. do i need to order new exhaust manifold bolts? i'm thinking i do but just want to confirm... My thoughts are related to the heat cycles the bolts go through, so yes, I think it's prudent

B. i think i read on the forum that the factory 6.1 exhaust manifold gaskets are better quality than most aftermarket gaskets... is that true? agreed

C. i read on the forum that the R/T oil dipstick may be different than the 6.1 oil dipstick and may need to be bent or modified so as not to rub or rest on the manifolds... any truth to that? should i order a 6.1 oil dipstick or would i just be wasting money? Don't know here

D. what size is the 6.1 midpipes? i'm thinking they will have to be reduced in order to fit my Corsa Extreme on my R/T. Should bolt up

2) i am planning on doing the 6.4 auto cam swap into my 5.7 auto R/T... in addition to the factory cam, what other pieces or parts should i do... like valve springs, push rods, things like this? can anyone suggest any manufactures or maybe just order through dodge? Dodge should be fine, but I would check into. comp Cams

3) i am planning on upgrading my 6lb factory supplied magnuson S/C pulley for a 3.10 diameter 8lb pulley... so far i have only come across one vendor located in southern florida that sells them... does anyone know of any other supplier or vendor that may carry them?Don't know here

***also while the car is being worked on, i am planning on having them do the timing chain recall work... that is actually what has gotten this ball rolling is the recall... i figure if someone has to open up the front of the engine, might as well do a cam swap too...Since your warranty is probably shot anyway, why not

thanks for taking the time to read all this and hopefully we'll all get a little something out of it... :4-wavey:

There ya go, Doug. That's JMO.

 

[friendoffur]

New bolts...Yes
SRT exhaust gaskets...Yes
6.1 or maybe even 392(probably the same) dipstick and tube...I would do this instead of "tweeking" the original to fit plus you wount have to rig one of the exhaust bolts has the 5.7 bolt has the mounting but won't work without very carefull spacing on the SRT headers.

 

[2010CHALLENGER]

There ya go, Doug. That's JMO.

thank you very much for your input... that confirms a lot of what i had in my mind as well! :wavey:

New bolts...Yes
SRT exhaust gaskets...Yes
6.1 or maybe even 392(probably the same) dipstick and tube...I would do this instead of "tweeking" the original to fit plus you wount have to rig one of the exhaust bolts has the 5.7 bolt has the mounting but won't work without very carefull spacing on the SRT headers.

thanks dan, this also confirms a lot of what i was thinking about... i remembered from your 6.1 manifold install thread that you may have had to tweak your dipstick (no play-on words there! LOL :wow: ) and rig one of the bolts so i thought maybe this might be a better route to try and order a 6.1 dipstick and see if it fits/works better... i don't know if the "bolt up" locations are the same or not and may have to put in a little more research into this... :wavey:

 

[friendoffur]

thank you very much for your input... that confirms a lot of what i had in my mind as well! :wavey:




thanks dan, this also confirms a lot of what i was thinking about... i remembered from your 6.1 manifold install thread that you may have had to tweak your dipstick (no play-on words there! LOL :wow: ) and rig one of the bolts so i thought maybe this might be a better route to try and order a 6.1 dipstick and see if it fits/works better... i don't know if the "bolt up" locations are the same or not and may have to put in a little more research into this... :wavey:

I'm thinking that it will be real obvious which one of the new SRT bolts the new dipstick mounts to once you get the headers in place and run the new dipstick tube into approximate place. By the way...I would like to do the same mods.
Oh yeah...upgrade those springs while your in there.:smileup:

 

[2010CHALLENGER]

doing a little more research and i've added a few more things...

i think i'm going to upgrade my stock 5.7 fuel pump to the 392 fuel pump... i read on here in another post that the 392 fuel pump has 200 lph vs the 5.7/6.1 175 lph... fairly cheap ($110) through dodge and not too labor intensive...

and getting back to the 6.1 exhaust headers, i will probably need to pick up an O2 sensor pig tail extension as the O2 sensor is in a slightly different location...

thanks to dan (friendoffur) as i picked out that little tidbit from his 6.1 header install thread...

 

[dodge boy]

I wish you the best of luck with your build Doug, Sounds like you really mean business, I was wondering if you have given any thought to upgrading your drivetrain?

 

[2010CHALLENGER]

I wish you the best of luck with your build Doug, Sounds like you really mean business, I was wondering if you have given any thought to upgrading your drivetrain?

yes, i have thought about it... i discussed it with Tim at MPH and he seemed to lean towards not messing with anything this time around... i may pick his brain a little more when the car goes in... he said since it's not a track car, things should hold up ok for me... i asked him about his feelings about the mythical "500 HP range" and he said "You've been reading the forums haven't you." i said "Yeah." he seems to think you can push the engines a little more than that so we'll see what happens... because i asked him about forging internals and the possibility of a stage 2 or 3 transmission... he said to just hold off and wait for my current one to blow (transmission) which may never happen, then worry about... that's all fine and dandy but i guess i'd be more worried about the motor myself... scary stuff, i know... :SHOCKED: i'm sure he knows what he's doing... they do a lot of work and i've heard a lot of good things come out of there... so we shall see!

 

[dodge boy]

Did your guy say anything about going with a 3.2 pulley?
I'm just curious because I'm getting over 8 lbs boost with mine.

 

[2010DETYELLOWRT]

I am also working on doing the cam 392 cam swap and i have been working on a parts list.Unless you change heads then you cant use 392 springs retainers or pushrods.So you have to get aftermarket parts heres some that i have found.Also while you are in there change the oil solenoid--- VVT Solenoid 53022338AB

My dealer wants to pull the heads to change the springs but i am on the fence with that, i dont know if i would need a full head gasket set(top end) or not?Heres what i have so far ,double check every thing that i have here.

Cam swap parts using the 6.4 with MDS (auto)
Camshaft 05038419AB

Valve Springs - PSI Performance springs LS 1511ML
Spring cups - Manley 42324-16
Steel Retainers - Comp Cams 761-16
Arri push rods
6.80 intake 210 radius .080 wall thickness
8.075 exhaust 210 radius .080 wall thickness
Arring shims
Push Rods: Manley 5.7/6.4 HEMI Set #26640 (6.80"Int/8.10"Exh .080 wall 4130 chrome moly)

 

[2010CHALLENGER]

Did your guy say anything about going with a 3.2 pulley?
I'm just curious because I'm getting over 8 lbs boost with mine.

no he really didn't say anything about the pulley swap... i just told him that was something i was wanting to do and he said sure, no problem with that... is that what you have is a 3.2? i've been reading online and everything i have read says the 3.1 pulley is for 8lbs, so not sure what to make of that or how much difference there is...

this is what i was going by...

The stock boost for any Magnacharger TVS 2300 Supercharger Kit installed upon any 2009-2014 Dodge Challenger-Charger RT 5.7L Engine Vehicles with a 3.30" Magnacharger Pulley installed on it is only 6 psi at wide open throttle.

- 3.20" pulley: expect 1.0 psi. more boost over stock pulley -Total boost 7.0 psi

- 3.10" pulley: expect 2.0 psi. more boost over stock pulley -Total boost 8.0 psi

- 3.00" pulley: expect 3.0 psi. more boost over stock pulley -Total boost 9.0 psi

- 2.90" pulley: expect 4.0 psi. more boost over stock pulley -Total boost 10.0 psi

- 2.80" pulley: expect 5.0 psi. more boost over stock pulley -Total boost 11.0 psi

- 2.70" pulley: expect 6.0 psi. more boost over stock pulley -Total boost 12.0 psi

PLEASE NOTE: If running Long-Tube Headers, you will lose 2 PSI of Boost and to gain that back, choose a pulley 2 sizes smaller!

The stock boost for any Magnacharger TVS 2300 Supercharger Kit installed upon any 2009-2014 Dodge Challenger-Charger SRT 6.1L Engine Vehicles with a 3.40" Magnacharger Pulley installed on it is only 6 psi at wide open throttle.

- 3.20" pulley: expect 2.0 psi. more boost over stock pulley -Total boost 8.0 psi

- 3.10" pulley: expect 3.0 psi. more boost over stock pulley -Total boost 9.0 psi

- 3.00" pulley: expect 4.0 psi. more boost over stock pulley -Total boost 10.0 psi

- 2.90" pulley: expect 5.0 psi. more boost over stock pulley -Total boost 11.0 psi

- 2.80" pulley: expect 6.0 psi. more boost over stock pulley -Total boost 12.0 psi

- 2.70" pulley: expect 7.0 psi. more boost over stock pulley -Total boost 13.0 psi

PLEASE NOTE: If running Long-Tube Headers, you will lose 2 PSI of Boost and to gain that back, choose a pulley 2 sizes smaller!

guess i will need to research this out a little more... :4-dontknow:

I am also working on doing the cam 392 cam swap and i have been working on a parts list.Unless you change heads then you cant use 392 springs retainers or pushrods.So you have to get aftermarket parts heres some that i have found.Also while you are in there change the oil solenoid--- VVT Solenoid 53022338AB

My dealer wants to pull the heads to change the springs but i am on the fence with that, i dont know if i would need a full head gasket set(top end) or not?Heres what i have so far ,double check every thing that i have here.

Cam swap parts using the 6.4 with MDS (auto)
Camshaft 05038419AB

Valve Springs - PSI Performance springs LS 1511ML
Spring cups - Manley 42324-16
Steel Retainers - Comp Cams 761-16
Arri push rods
6.80 intake 210 radius .080 wall thickness
8.075 exhaust 210 radius .080 wall thickness
Arring shims
Push Rods: Manley 5.7/6.4 HEMI Set #26640 (6.80"Int/8.10"Exh .080 wall 4130 chrome moly)

thanks for the information Frank... this is something else i need to pick Tim's brain about... i sent him an email 2 days ago with some questions and haven't heard anything back... i may have to give them a call in another day or so as i'd like to start getting parts on order... i don't really have a problem with what he thinks/wants but i honestly don't want to have to pull the heads... that's going to really start getting labor intensive... :str: but at the end of the day, we gotta do things right...

 

[dodge boy]

I was thinking the same way you were Doug about the pulley size and boost levels, you can see by the reading on my dyno chart that it shows that I'm getting over 8 lbs boost with the 3.2 pulley that I have now.

When I questioned the boost level Alex from Arrington said that the 3.2 pulley delivered 8 lbs boost on the 5.7 Hemi.

 

[friendoffur]

I haven't ever done it on a Gen3 Hemi so maybe there is something I'm missing here but I have allways changed out valve springs one cylinder at a time useing air pressure to hold the valves up while changing the springs. Is there a reason why this won't work on our Hemi's???:4-dontknow:

 

[2010DETYELLOWRT]

I haven't ever done it on a Gen3 Hemi so maybe there is something I'm missing here but I have allways changed out valve springs one cylinder at a time useing air pressure to hold the valves up while changing the springs. Is there a reason why this won't work on our Hemi's???:4-dontknow:

No you are right there is a special tool for the Hemi springs and you can close both valves and put air in them, but my dealer wont do it that way because the lifters might drop down into the bores but on these engines you can spin the cam a few times and they stay up in the bores.They just wont take a chance on it.:4-dontknow:Thats how i would do it myself but i want them to do the cam with the TC recall so I think i will let them pull the heads.

 

[friendoffur]

No you are right there is a special tool for the Hemi springs and you can close both valves and put air in them, but my dealer wont do it that way because the lifters might drop down into the bores but on these engines you can spin the cam a few times and they stay up in the bores.They just wont take a chance on it.:4-dontknow:Thats how i would do it myself but i want them to do the cam with the TC recall so I think i will let them pull the heads.

I'd be willing to bet a hundered bucks I could figure a good way to go down through the vavle push-rod casting in the heads to secure the lifters in the up position....don't they come in sets of four...so I would only need four "hangers":4-dontknow:

 

[2010CHALLENGER]

i have a diablo sport predator tuner right now... does anyone think that upgrading to the intune or trinity would have any benefits?

 

[bad8nti]

i have a diablo sport predator tuner right now... does anyone think that upgrading to the intune or trinity would have any benefits?

The only thing I can think of, Doug, is the firmware upgrades to the newer stuff. I think(and someone please correct me if I'm wrong), they've stopped developing SW on the Predator.

 

[kilo1]

doing a little more research and i've added a few more things...

i think i'm going to upgrade my stock 5.7 fuel pump to the 392 fuel pump... i read on here in another post that the 392 fuel pump has 200 lph vs the 5.7/6.1 175 lph... fairly cheap ($110) through dodge and not too labor intensive...

.

You Just might to rethink that as MoPar has been reading and changed pricing on 6.4 cam and fuel pump
Cam 5037379BC now $ 225.00
Fuel Pump Module 68103913AB Now $ 320.00

and as far as dipstick I suggest you look into getting a Lokar type flexible dipstick kit about 25.00

 

[2010CHALLENGER]

You Just might to rethink that as MoPar has been reading and changed pricing on 6.4 cam and fuel pump
Cam 5037379BC now $ 225.00
Fuel Pump Module 68103913AB Now $ 320.00

and as far as dipstick I suggest you look into getting a Lokar type flexible dipstick kit about 25.00

you may be right on the fuel pump... i got that price quote from a forum page but i forget the date on it... thought it was less than a year old, not that that matters at all here... i will have to call and get an update on that...

i called my dealership last week about the cam shaft and you're right... the price they quoted me was actually 250! i checked the part number he wrote down and it turns out he quoted me for the manual transmission cam shaft... i called the dealer back and the price for the auto cam shaft was 87 dollars...

thanks for the heads up on the Lokar dipstick kit... definitely a good price on that...

prices almost always increase so i better start getting some parts on order quickly!

 

[2010CHALLENGER]

The only thing I can think of, Doug, is the firmware upgrades to the newer stuff. I think(and someone please correct me if I'm wrong), they've stopped developing SW on the Predator.

well, i just might have to upgrade then... i'm planning on keeping the car for a long time so maybe it's a good idea to get something that's going to have some software life left in it... thanks for the info!