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Black Beauties Walk Down Supercharger Lane

20115 Views 520 Replies 33 Participants Last post by  RyzRT, 
RyzRT
I have researched and drooled and dreamed of installing a supercharger on my 5.7L R/T aka., Black Beauty, for 4 years now. I was getting close, when Covid struck, and the country went through the shutdown and my dreams crashed on the rocks.

Because the prices of superchargers almost all of them increased in price over $1K+, which caused me to just give up the dream of getting one of them.

However something has changed, and that is doc440 has sold me his used Magnuson supercharger, which I now have on hand, so Black Beauty will get her supercharger.

I am writing this now as HemiMetal has asked me to document the installation, but I am very bad at remembering to take pictures along the way, so this will hopefully keep me in mind to do so?

There are things I am having to acquire besides the supercharger itself to be able to install, and since I have over 76,000 miles on my engine I am at the same time going to replace the water pump since I am dropping the coolant anyway.

Once I have everything I need, I'll begin.

AnyHoo Stay Tuned! Ry
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RyzRT
@Mopar_NoCar

Looks like in your picture you plugged off the PCV airbox line and if you did that did you also plug off the air tube on the oil fill neck and install the air filter top in place of the factory oil fill cap?

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjYyKfU9vT9AhV5LkQIHbx9CpkQFnoECA8QAQ&url=https://treperformance.com/pdf/327327&usg=AOvVaw0hiGv3ts9Ki7nBxqsopl9K

I read over your Whipple installation instructions this morning the link above is the PDF of the Whipple instructions.

Before I tell you what you have done wrong I would like to say that I am impressed with some of the supplied hardware of the Whipple vs the Magnuson. I really like the reservoir setup the Whipple comes with. I also like that Whipple supplied pre-bent metal pipes with rubber O rings to duplicate the stock 5.7 heater core connections to the water pump, that is very nice.

This is what you have wrong and I suggest you immediately fix it, you clearly have a filter Top on your oil fill port.

Whipple Installation Page 68 item #206 Reuse Factory Oil Fill Cap In Oil Fill Neck.

Why would Whipple want that sealed with the factory cap that has a rubber O ring in it to completely seal the top so no air could get in through the top. If they wanted a filtered top there they would have supplied one for you to use, but they did not. Because their next instructions are about reconnecting the fresh air line to the stock air box connection point.

Why would they want that PCV fresh air line reconnected? Because it serves 2 purposes, it supplies fresh air to the crankcase at all times especially when the PCV valve is open and flowing. It also supplies a constant vacuum to the crankcase keeping a slight negative pressure on the crankcase at all times, especially when the PCV valve is closed.

Whipple Installation Page 69 Items #210, 211, 212, 213, If you have done anything different from these instructions, Please, correct it, no matter what you think of me, I do not want you to hurt your engine and with the Whipple supercharger you have the power to do it. So cuss me if you want, it won't be the first time, trust me, but Please fix it, if anything is different from the instructions.

Possibly some of the problems you have been experiencing are related to or because of that, because you do not have the supercharger connected as Whipple instructed you to do. Ry

EDIT: Whatever you do, never show that above picture to Whipple, I guarantee you, it will void your warranty.
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Mopar_NoCar
RyzRT said:
@Mopar_NoCar

Looks like in your picture you plugged off the PCV airbox line and if you did that did you also plug off the air tube on the oil fill neck and install the air filter top in place of the factory oil fill cap?

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjYyKfU9vT9AhV5LkQIHbx9CpkQFnoECA8QAQ&url=https://treperformance.com/pdf/327327&usg=AOvVaw0hiGv3ts9Ki7nBxqsopl9K

I read over your Whipple installation instructions this morning the link above is the PDF of the Whipple instructions.

Before I tell you what you have done wrong I would like to say that I am impressed with some of the supplied hardware of the Whipple vs the Magnuson. I really like the reservoir setup the Whipple comes with. I also like that Whipple supplied pre-bent metal pipes with rubber O rings to duplicate the stock 5.7 heater core connections to the water pump, that is very nice.

This is what you have wrong and I suggest you immediately fix it, you clearly have a filter Top on your oil fill port.

Whipple Installation Page 68 item #206 Reuse Factory Oil Fill Cap In Oil Fill Neck.

Why would Whipple want that sealed with the factory cap that has a rubber O ring in it to completely seal the top so no air could get in through the top. If they wanted a filtered top there they would have supplied one for you to use, but they did not. Because their next instructions are about reconnecting the fresh air line to the stock air box connection point.

Why would they want that PCV fresh air line reconnected? Because it serves 2 purposes, it supplies fresh air to the crankcase at all times especially when the PCV valve is open and flowing. It also supplies a constant vacuum to the crankcase keeping a slight negative pressure on the crankcase at all times, especially when the PCV valve is closed.

Whipple Installation Page 69 Items #210, 211, 212, 213, If you have done anything different from these instructions, Please, correct it, no matter what you think of me, I do not want you to hurt your engine and with the Whipple supercharger you have the power to do it. So cuss me if you want, it won't be the first time, trust me, but Please fix it, if anything is different from the instructions.

Possibly some of the problems you have been experiencing are related to or because of that, because you do not have the supercharger connected as Whipple instructed you to do. Ry

EDIT: Whatever you do, never show that above picture to Whipple, I guarantee you, it will void your warranty.
Click to expand...
OST Dyno installed it and they said it was okay to run that cap, it was on there when I sent them the car. The PCV vale only closes in event of a backfire. I may put the cap on and run a small breather on the makeup air. That is a Metco breather. OST did the cam, headers, converter 1 piece driveshaft and whipple, 185 degree t-stat and tuning. That is their stage 2 kit. Yes, I capped the inlet on the air box and on the filler neck. If you don't when you fill the car with oil it will get everywhere. On page 60, it says, "183. (2011 and up 6.4L) Install the supplied 6AN viton orings to the (5) supplied 6AN to quick connect fittings. Apply light amount of grease to orings. Install (1) of the supplied (1) 7.89mm quick connect fitting into top hole of SC inlet on driver side. Install the supplied (2) 9.89mm quick connect fittings to the supercharger inlet bottom two holes. Install the supplied (2) 9.89mm to the oil catch can. " and they do not even make nor supply a catch can.

I do appreciate your input, and I am not going to get into negative thoughts about people. That is not my way.

metcomotorsports.com

Crank Case Breather, Screw-in, for 5.7L, 6.1L, and 6.4L Hemi

metcomotorsports.com

Home Page -

Leading the Way In the Relentless Pursuit of Horsepower The staff at OST Dyno is striving to be one of the premier tuning and performance shops in the Mid-Atlantic and East Coast regions. With over 40 years of performance automotive and racing experience the staff at OST Dyno is equipped to help...
shop.ostdyno.com shop.ostdyno.com
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RyzRT
Mopar_NoCar said:
OST Dyno installed it and they said it was okay to run that cap, it was on there when I sent them the car.
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That makes me very happy that I did my own installation, took me a lot longer, many sleepless nights dreaming about those instructions. I probably installed that supercharger in my mind 10 times before I started the actual install. But mine is installed by the Magnuson installation instructions, with the PCV system completely sealed.

Now I did add the catch cans to the sealed PCV system, to catch the oil vapor, but the PCV system is sealed, exactly as the Magnuson instructions call for, as does the Whipple instructions as well.
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Mopar_NoCar
RyzRT said:
That makes me very happy that I did my own installation, took me a lot longer, many sleepless nights dreaming about those instructions. I probably installed that supercharger in my mind 10 times before I started the actual install. But mine is installed by the Magnuson installation instructions, with the PCV system completely sealed.

Now I did add the catch cans to the sealed PCV system, to catch the oil vapor, but the PCV system is sealed, exactly as the Magnuson instructions call for, as does the Whipple instructions as well.
Click to expand...
Just spent 260 today, waiting for the fender mount UPR to get here. Car is not moving until it is done. May just break out my hose and cap. Maybe a catch can on the driver's side but I am not as creative or patient as you.
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RyzRT
Under hood shot today after dressing up the hoses on the drivers side catch can.

Hood Car Vehicle Automotive exterior Personal luxury car


Hood Automotive design Motor vehicle Automotive battery Car


We were supposed to have a Cars and Coffee this Saturday, but it has been canceled because of rain.
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CaptScat345
Looks really good, Ry!
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RyzRT
CaptScat345 said:
Looks really good, Ry!
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Thanks Dave, It is running really good with this AFE airbox setup, the supercharger whine is able to be distinctly heard, with cruising and light acceleration, until it is slapped to the floor, then the exhaust sound roars from the increased HP being produced, and literally drowns out the superchargers whine. The 5.7 seems to really work well with the Magnuson, it is like the perfect compliment to the 5.7 engine, and the AFE airbox just adds to it. Thanks again, for the compliment! :) Ry
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RyzRT
I realized something driving the other day that when the car was naturally aspirated I would always take the morning temperature into consideration, because the car always performed better when it was cooler outside.

If I needed to run a 0 ~ 60 time to check for performance improvements, or to best a previously run time, I needed temperatures around the 50 degree area or lower to get the best run times.

Which in all actuality did not mean the car naturally aspirated would produce the same times at 70 degrees outside, but supercharged it really doesn't matter anymore as it can do what it used to do at 50 degrees at 70 degrees.

Now supercharged it does perform better the cooler it is outside, but it has far exceeded any of the previous naturally aspirated times.

So running 0 ~ 60 times anymore for my own curiosity is not needed, I know what the car can do at pretty much any outside temperature, road surface, or time of day. :) Ry
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RyzRT
I did not realize the difference the supercharger added to the exhaust sound until the car show this past Saturday. I have been very happy with the SOLO H Pipe exhaust setup they built for me, but until the car show, I had no idea how loud Black Beauty actually is.

Idling the car is a zero threat sound, a highway patrolman would not even give it a second look, if he or she walked behind the car. But under just gas pedal pressing, with zero load on the car it erupts into a blasting report and sounds amazing.

People had gathered around, one young man asked me to take him for a ride in the car, but I was absolutely not going to do that!

The car was running and I asked Lynda to punch it, and she pressed it about halfway, and I said NO, Punch It, and she did, the supercharger pushed the exhaust sound literally to NASCAR level. Lynda then shut it off, and every eye in the entire parking lot was looking our way.

We were parked across from the Corvette club, we were the only Challenger in the parking lot. I went to look at other cars and Lynda stayed with Black Beauty, I occasionally looked back to see some of the Corvette owners go over and check out the Challenger.

According to posted street results and car reviews there was only one of those Corvettes that had a chance to outrun Black Beauty in a quarter mile. The owner of that car, a new C8 Corvette mid engine, came over before the car show ended, to ask me what all had been done to the car. Nice guy!

I guess at this point I am coming across as bragging, so I am sure you all are sick of hearing it, so from this point, I think I have covered everything and there is no need for more, so unless I get some questions, I wish you all the best! :) Ry
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shooterjgs
RyzRT said:
I d

I guess at this point I am coming across as bragging, so I am sure you all are sick of hearing it, so from this point, I think I have covered everything and there is no need for more, so unless I get some questions, I wish you all the best! :) Ry
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Seriously... GREAT posts... 👍👍
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Nightbringer
I think we all enjoy your updates and experiences, even if they seem a little like boasting. Who of us hasn't done that at least a little about our own rides?
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RyzRT
I will still be reporting any new upgrades when they are completed, as I do have some already purchased, but not installed yet, and also if any bad things happen, but performance wise it is consistent.
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Mopar_NoCar
RyzRT said:
I did not realize the difference the supercharger added to the exhaust sound until the car show this past Saturday. I have been very happy with the SOLO H Pipe exhaust setup they built for me, but until the car show, I had no idea how loud Black Beauty actually is.

Idling the car is a zero threat sound, a highway patrolman would not even give it a second look, if he or she walked behind the car. But under just gas pedal pressing, with zero load on the car it erupts into a blasting report and sounds amazing.

People had gathered around, one young man asked me to take him for a ride in the car, but I was absolutely not going to do that!

The car was running and I asked Lynda to punch it, and she pressed it about halfway, and I said NO, Punch It, and she did, the supercharger pushed the exhaust sound literally to NASCAR level. Lynda then shut it off, and every eye in the entire parking lot was looking our way.

We were parked across from the Corvette club, we were the only Challenger in the parking lot. I went to look at other cars and Lynda stayed with Black Beauty, I occasionally looked back to see some of the Corvette owners go over and check out the Challenger.

According to posted street results and car reviews there was only one of those Corvettes that had a chance to outrun Black Beauty in a quarter mile. The owner of that car, a new C8 Corvette mid engine, came over before the car show ended, to ask me what all had been done to the car. Nice guy!

I guess at this point I am coming across as bragging, so I am sure you all are sick of hearing it, so from this point, I think I have covered everything and there is no need for more, so unless I get some questions, I wish you all the best! :) Ry
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Nail it under an overpass with the windows down... All I am going to say.
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Nightbringer
Mopar_NoCar said:
Nail it under an overpass with the windows down... All I am going to say.
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RyzRT
Any of you reading this thread that may be considering getting any type of supercharger, there are other drive line items you need to consider as well.

If you have a 5.7 with an 8 speed automatic, you are 99% guaranteed to have an Open or Conventional differential under the rear end, you need to change that to a Limited Slip Differential, which is a Hellcat labeled differential. The 5.7 manual transmissions come with a Limited Slip so they don't have to concern themselves with that.

The (2015+) Limited Slip Ratios available should be sought taking into consideration how you intend to use the car, if it is a daily driver then the 3.09 ratio will give the best gas mileage. Daily driver with occasional drag strip use the 3.70 ratio may be a good option, and the 3.90 ratio for drag strip use.

This is my personal opinion as mine is not a daily driver, but a casual use driver, running a 93 octane tune, so I want the best gas mileage I can still get supercharged, so I am running the 3.09 ratio.

Next is the Elephant in the room, the OEM two piece driveshaft, now the problem with the OEM is not its HP handling capability as the (2015+) 5.7 and 6.4 run the same driveshaft. The problem is the center support failure of the rubber isolation mounting, which is beginning to happen more and more these days and many are finding out the hard way.

Now regarding this I am just going to say, if you can afford any of the superchargers, then swap out the OEM two piece driveshaft for a one piece driveshaft. Problem solved, and trust me if you have not had a problem yet running the OEM, you will, but when will it happen, and it is rarely convenient when the failure actually happens and you cannot safely drive the car anymore.

Wood Grass Bumper Pipe Composite material


Automotive tire Wood Gas Grass Motor vehicle


Tire Automotive tire Wheel Bicycle tire Tread


My dad used to say, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it.", and honestly that is why we got either towed home, or driven home because the car repair place had to keep the car. I say, if there is a better solution available, use it, in the picture below which looks to be the better option under a high performance Challenger? Especially with a 100HP supercharged Minimum gain, the one piece is a thousand HP plus capable.

Grass Gas Cylinder Automotive exhaust Outdoor bench


Asphalt Gas Cylinder Road surface Grass


IMO, this is a No Brainer!


Next is investigating and addressing rear negative factory built in Camber, take your Challenger to an alignment shop and have them align to Dodge specs, then get a copy of the alignment table results, and see if there is anything they cannot align, like the rear camber. Newer Challengers may be corrected regarding this issue, my 2015 was not, it was out a full negative 2.0 degrees and was not alignment correctable.

This caused excessive wear on the inside of the rear tires and cost me a lot of off the line traction, because only 30% of the tire footprint was actually contacting the road. So the rear tires went up in smoke, which is fine if that is your goal, but anyone should want to evenly destroy your rear tires, if that is what you do with your Challenger.

Obviously you are not supercharging your Challenger for easy Sunday cruising, you are supercharging for more power, more power that you want to send to the rear wheels, right? I used the SPC corrective press in bushings to remove 1.5 degrees of the negative camber, which left me with 0.5 degrees of negative camber, and that solved my problem.

Next is where the rubber meets the road, tires! If you want rear traction you have to put the tires back there that grip the road, and unfortunately you do not get 50,000 miles out of those. I've covered this subject in other threads so I am not going into any deep explanations, if you want great rear traction that you can still drive home in the rain, Mickey Thompson ET Street S/S tires. I never leave home without em! :ROFLMAO:

Thanks for your time if you read this, God Bless You!, and be safe out there. Ry
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doc440
RyzRT said:
Any of you reading this thread that may be considering getting any type of supercharger, there are other drive line items you need to consider as well.

If you have a 5.7 with an 8 speed automatic, you are 99% guaranteed to have an Open or Conventional differential under the rear end, you need to change that to a Limited Slip Differential, which is a Hellcat labeled differential. The 5.7 manual transmissions come with a Limited Slip so they don't have to concern themselves with that.
Click to expand...
I’ve often wondered what the reason is for manual trans cars getting the limited slip differential by default and the automatics don’t. FCA does the same thing with the Jeep Wrangler, all manuals get the limited slip rear diff.
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RyzRT
doc440 said:
I’ve often wondered what the reason is for manual trans cars getting the limited slip differential by default and the automatics don’t. FCA does the same thing with the Jeep Wrangler, all manuals get the limited slip rear diff.
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Hey Patrick, Lynda showed me a picture of you the other day that she had took when we made the deal for the supercharger, Thanks once again for selling it to me!

Just guessing maybe the initial cost difference out of the factory door, in a large quantity would be a chunk of money Dodge saved?

They were relying on the electronic traction control solving the off the line traction issues, especially with Challengers with Super Track Pack and Launch Control.

The Traction Control did work to a certain power level as stock it pretty much worked, as many driving on an Open differential with their cars still stock, do not even realize they are driving an open differential.

But as soon as the engine is allowed to breathe with upgrades and a high performance tune is applied, the rear traction control cannot do the job anymore and off the line becomes a passenger tire burner.

Did any of the (2015+) A8 6.4s get open differentials?
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doc440
RyzRT said:
Hey Patrick, Lynda showed me a picture of you the other day that she had took when we made the deal for the supercharger, Thanks once again for selling it to me!

Just guessing maybe the initial cost difference out of the factory door, in a large quantity would be a chunk of money Dodge saved?

They were relying on the electronic traction control solving the off the line traction issues, especially with Challengers with Super Track Pack and Launch Control.

The Traction Control did work to a certain power level as stock it pretty much worked, as many driving on an Open differential with their cars still stock, do not even realize they are driving an open differential.

But as soon as the engine is allowed to breathe with upgrades and a high performance tune is applied, the rear traction control cannot do the job anymore and off the line becomes a passenger tire burner.

Did any of the (2015+) A8 6.4s get open differentials?
Click to expand...
As far as I know, all 6.4s get the limited slip regardless of transmission. Been following this thread and it sounds like you’ve really been enjoying the supercharger! Good thing I sold it to you or it would be on my new shaker by now. I can’t leave anything stock, put a Barton shifter on right after got it home, nothing like tearing out the center console on a brand new car with less than 300 miles on it. Just reached 5000 miles on it about a month ago, figured it’s broken in now, so sent the ECU out to get unlocked and have nice tune on it now. Man, what a difference a tune makes!
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RyzRT
doc440 said:
Man, what a difference a tune makes!
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Yeah, my first written tune was a big change, I went out to run a 0 ~ 60 but the tires started spinning so I said what the heck and floored it, smoke enveloped the entire rear end, I could not even see out the rear at all. I let it burn until it finally caught a grip, went down the road and turned around to go see the stripes I had laid down. Make that stripe I had laid down, that was when I discovered it had an open differential, how embarrassing. :eek:o_O:cautious::rolleyes:(n)

That led to my first unplanned upgrade, a Limited Slip Differential!
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RyzRT
Been playing around with the manual side of the slap stick, and was able to get quite a nice response from the superchargers whine in 1st and 2nd gear, along with a lot of power to the road. This was actually the first time the tires started to spin enough for rear end drift, but it was because the rear tires hit one of those white vinyl crosswalk strips and busted loose, then grabbed the pavement and jumped forward. Smiles per miles. :)
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