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Discussion Starter #81
Lube Gard or any other miracle trans fluid will not fix that type of problem. In EVERY case I've seen with these gearboxes when it refuses to come out of gear, If the driver stops the vehicle and kills the engine, therefore removing the load from the drivetrain, the transmission will pop out of gear with the pressure of one finger on the shift lever. Which of course proves that there is no inherent problem with the internals of the gearbox itself. If it ever happens again, you should try that.

-John
Hey John

Got stuck today sitting in traffic. Shut the car off and it was still stuck. Not sure what that proves but there you go
 

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OK
Hey John

Got stuck today sitting in traffic. Shut the car off and it was still stuck. Not sure what that proves but there you go
OK, So in that case if you were standing on the clutch and it still would not come out of gear with light pressure on the shifter, it means the clutch is not releasing. I was not leaning that direction, however this shows me you had no disconnect in the drivetrain. I now suspect that the splines are dry or munged up with contamination causing the captured disc inside the dual disc clutch assembly to be hard stuck against the flywheel or backside of the secondary disc. Now I'm really surprised the dealer did not at least take the clutch out and clean and properly lube the clutch splines. That may have been the original problem all along. As far as Spofford Automotive goes, you need to talk to the owner. He now has two younger guys doing transmissions as the guy I knew from years past is no longer there.

-John
 

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Discussion Starter #83
OK

OK, So in that case if you were standing on the clutch and it still would not come out of gear with light pressure on the shifter, it means the clutch is not releasing. I was not leaning that direction, however this shows me you had no disconnect in the drivetrain. I now suspect that the splines are dry or munged up with contamination causing the captured disc inside the dual disc clutch assembly to be hard stuck against the flywheel or backside of the secondary disc. Now I'm really surprised the dealer did not at least take the clutch out and clean and properly lube the clutch splines. That may have been the original problem all along. As far as Spofford Automotive goes, you need to talk to the owner. He now has two younger guys doing transmissions as the guy I knew from years past is no longer there.

-John
Ok thanks I will find the owner and relay this to him. I wish I had known that when the dealerships said "the clutch looks fine," what they really should've been saying is "we can't tell unless we take the clutch out if it is a problem." The last dealership said they wouldn't take the clutch out unless they were replacing it but why would they replace it if they couldn't tell if it was a problem?? Then the support area rep said it was a miscommunication that the dealership didn't tell me they needed authorization to take the clutch out to properly check it. At any rate, I'm looking forward to not working with a dealership and having someone professional take a good look at it. Even in the week my car was with another shop in peabody, they called me every day with an update and I didn't have to track them down and beg them to call me back. like night and day.
 

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is it something special that only certain shops can do or could the parts be ordered and really any shop do it?
Any good transmission shop could do it.
 

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Okay guys this seems to be a common problem with the Tremec 6060 and my 2012 R/T Classic is having the same troubles. So I called Tremec after getting tire of arguing with Dodge dealer. I found out through Tremec that my 2012 already had the carbon fiber syncro's in it. There is a tag on the drivers side of the trans. with a serial number on it, if your trans serial number is above a certain number( can't remember number and can't find it in my notes) its already been up graded with the new syncro's. So from sometime early in 2012 on all TR 6060 have them is what I was told. I just pickup a brand new take off clutch and flywheel from a crate motor for just over $400 shipped from an outfit that is installing 6.4 hemi's into Jeeps, GreenHornet15 check on the internet and E-Bay he puts them up for sale all the time. I have come to the same conclusion as TheOldGuy the problem is in the captured clutch disc in the dual disc clutch sticking to the input splines and pilot bushing sticking. I have a 1996 BMW K1100RS motorcycle that does the same thing( yes it has a dry clutch like our cars), BMW recommends take the trans out an lubing the splines every few year or 10,000 to 12,000 miles with there special grease. I found on one of the K bike forums the guys were using a half and half mix of Honda Moly 60 paste and Wurth sig3000 super impact grease and getting 3 to 4 time longer before servicing. I tried it back in 2010 and have not had to tare the bike down since to grease for a sticky clutch. When I get my R/T out of its winter slumber I will pull the clutch and clean every spline and part in there, put all new parts in with this grease and hopefully never have to do this again.
I could go on for hour about dual disc clutches and how bad they are, to much spinning mass on end of input, way more clutch than any sub 600 hp or torque engine needs. I've talk to 3 different clutch manufacturers about making a single disc clutch and all three got hung up on the 130 tooth dual mass flywheel and said it couldn't be done or would cost more then the dual disc clutch. Its funny if you put a Gen 3 Hemi in your old A or B body Mopar these same companies make 130 tooth flywheel and single disc clutch to bolt up an 833 4spd or a Magnum TR 6 for a lot less money. Hell I've got a 66 Dart with a 416 small block that runs 10.70 and .80 at 125 to 126 with a 10 inch single disc clutch, most old muscle cars ran 10.5 and 11 inch single disc clutches. Okay rant over!
 

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Okay guys this seems to be a common problem with the Tremec 6060 and my 2012 R/T Classic is having the same troubles. So I called Tremec after getting tire of arguing with Dodge dealer. I found out through Tremec that my 2012 already had the carbon fiber syncro's in it. There is a tag on the drivers side of the trans. with a serial number on it, if your trans serial number is above a certain number( can't remember number and can't find it in my notes) its already been up graded with the new syncro's. So from sometime early in 2012 on all TR 6060 have them is what I was told. I just pickup a brand new take off clutch and flywheel from a crate motor for just over $400 shipped from an outfit that is installing 6.4 hemi's into Jeeps, GreenHornet15 check on the internet and E-Bay he puts them up for sale all the time. I have come to the same conclusion as TheOldGuy the problem is in the captured clutch disc in the dual disc clutch sticking to the input splines and pilot bushing sticking. I have a 1996 BMW K1100RS motorcycle that does the same thing( yes it has a dry clutch like our cars), BMW recommends take the trans out an lubing the splines every few year or 10,000 to 12,000 miles with there special grease. I found on one of the K bike forums the guys were using a half and half mix of Honda Moly 60 paste and Wurth sig3000 super impact grease and getting 3 to 4 time longer before servicing. I tried it back in 2010 and have not had to tare the bike down since to grease for a sticky clutch. When I get my R/T out of its winter slumber I will pull the clutch and clean every spline and part in there, put all new parts in with this grease and hopefully never have to do this again.
I could go on for hour about dual disc clutches and how bad they are, to much spinning mass on end of input, way more clutch than any sub 600 hp or torque engine needs. I've talk to 3 different clutch manufacturers about making a single disc clutch and all three got hung up on the 130 tooth dual mass flywheel and said it couldn't be done or would cost more then the dual disc clutch. Its funny if you put a Gen 3 Hemi in your old A or B body Mopar these same companies make 130 tooth flywheel and single disc clutch to bolt up an 833 4spd or a Magnum TR 6 for a lot less money. Hell I've got a 66 Dart with a 416 small block that runs 10.70 and .80 at 125 to 126 with a 10 inch single disc clutch, most old muscle cars ran 10.5 and 11 inch single disc clutches. Okay rant over!
I had a 1991 Paris Dakar BMW that had the same issues with the clutch. The dealer I bought the bike from used to use Caterpillar spline grease on them and it was a one time fix. It never had to come apart again until the clutch burned out. I don't know if the stuff could be used in the Challenger cars but I figured that the Recommended grease that the Dodge dealers use was OK because the cars done with it seem to hold up fairly well. If one were to use the Caterpillar grease, you can only get it at a heavy equipment dealer. It's not on Amazon or any other place that deals with the general public. (Edit here) Check this out... Amazon.com: Sachs 4200 080 050 Grease: Automotive
-John
 

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Discussion Starter #87
Ok that's a bit over my head but are you saying I should pick up some of the grease and ask the shop to grease everything up when he puts in the new clutch, if that's the route I end up going?
 

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Discussion Starter #88 (Edited)
Okay guys this seems to be a common problem with the Tremec 6060 and my 2012 R/T Classic is having the same troubles. So I called Tremec after getting tire of arguing with Dodge dealer. I found out through Tremec that my 2012 already had the carbon fiber syncro's in it. There is a tag on the drivers side of the trans. with a serial number on it, if your trans serial number is above a certain number( can't remember number and can't find it in my notes) its already been up graded with the new syncro's. So from sometime early in 2012 on all TR 6060 have them is what I was told. I just pickup a brand new take off clutch and flywheel from a crate motor for just over $400 shipped from an outfit that is installing 6.4 hemi's into Jeeps, GreenHornet15 check on the internet and E-Bay he puts them up for sale all the time. I have come to the same conclusion as TheOldGuy the problem is in the captured clutch disc in the dual disc clutch sticking to the input splines and pilot bushing sticking. I have a 1996 BMW K1100RS motorcycle that does the same thing( yes it has a dry clutch like our cars), BMW recommends take the trans out an lubing the splines every few year or 10,000 to 12,000 miles with there special grease. I found on one of the K bike forums the guys were using a half and half mix of Honda Moly 60 paste and Wurth sig3000 super impact grease and getting 3 to 4 time longer before servicing. I tried it back in 2010 and have not had to tare the bike down since to grease for a sticky clutch. When I get my R/T out of its winter slumber I will pull the clutch and clean every spline and part in there, put all new parts in with this grease and hopefully never have to do this again.
I could go on for hour about dual disc clutches and how bad they are, to much spinning mass on end of input, way more clutch than any sub 600 hp or torque engine needs. I've talk to 3 different clutch manufacturers about making a single disc clutch and all three got hung up on the 130 tooth dual mass flywheel and said it couldn't be done or would cost more then the dual disc clutch. Its funny if you put a Gen 3 Hemi in your old A or B body Mopar these same companies make 130 tooth flywheel and single disc clutch to bolt up an 833 4spd or a Magnum TR 6 for a lot less money. Hell I've got a 66 Dart with a 416 small block that runs 10.70 and .80 at 125 to 126 with a 10 inch single disc clutch, most old muscle cars ran 10.5 and 11 inch single disc clutches. Okay rant over!
Something like This? Hellcat Clutch and Flywheel New Take Off - Mopar Challenger 6.2L 2015-2019 | eBay

Would it be superior to a stock clutch that the shop would install? I don't care if it's a few hundred more. I just want the best feel in my day to day driving. I bought the car so I could enjoy driving it, not "live with it"the way it is
 

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Mopar SRT & SRT8 Challenger or Charger OE Flywheel. Pressure Plate & Clutch Disc | eBay
This was the outfit I got mine from, its is the factory clutch for a 6.4 and they have a 100% feed back score. It arrive in under a week and I am in the Saratoga area of New York. It will be the flywheel, pressure plate, and clutch discs. you will have to buy new flywheel bolts, pressure plate bolts, hydraulic throw out bearing( don't for get to pull the clutch delay valve out of it), and pilot bearing. But even with the extra cost of new bolt, T. O. bearing and pilot bearing you will still be into it for way less than half of after market clutch or getting one from the dealer. I've been drag racing stick cars for more than 30 years and one thing I found in all those year is never over clutch your car, all it will do is brake parts. As far as the grease goes the Caterpillar grease an Sachs moly lube that TheOldGuy put in is last post mix 50/50 sounds like it would work, the thick grease to hold it on and the moly to make it slick. You only need a small amount to put a thin coating on the input splines, disc splines, and pilot bearing. To much and it will fly up into the clutch as it spins. I bought the ARP bolts, part# 147-2801 flywheel bolts and 147-2201 pressure plate bolts and got my throw out bearing and pilot bearing through RockAuto they had the best price.
 

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Mopar SRT & SRT8 Challenger or Charger OE Flywheel. Pressure Plate & Clutch Disc | eBay
This was the outfit I got mine from, its is the factory clutch for a 6.4 and they have a 100% feed back score. It arrive in under a week and I am in the Saratoga area of New York. It will be the flywheel, pressure plate, and clutch discs. you will have to buy new flywheel bolts, pressure plate bolts, hydraulic throw out bearing( don't for get to pull the clutch delay valve out of it), and pilot bearing. But even with the extra cost of new bolt, T. O. bearing and pilot bearing you will still be into it for way less than half of after market clutch or getting one from the dealer. I've been drag racing stick cars for more than 30 years and one thing I found in all those year is never over clutch your car, all it will do is brake parts. As far as the grease goes the Caterpillar grease an Sachs moly lube that TheOldGuy put in is last post mix 50/50 sounds like it would work, the thick grease to hold it on and the moly to make it slick. You only need a small amount to put a thin coating on the input splines, disc splines, and pilot bearing. To much and it will fly up into the clutch as it spins. I bought the ARP bolts, part# 147-2801 flywheel bolts and 147-2201 pressure plate bolts and got my throw out bearing and pilot bearing through RockAuto they had the best price.
So I put that clutch on my watchlist whem you posted this. He just sent me a offer I cant really turn down. Dont need one right now pit will probably buy it and put it on the shelf for now.
 

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Discussion Starter #91
Tech at spofford found rust buildup on the clutch splines where it meets the throwout bearing as well as in the input shaft splines. I know that Dodge dealership lied about doing that work. Classy joint. Said it could be causing friction disk to not back off fly wheel properly and create drag in synchros.

Replaced fluid with Royal purple ATF+4. Will drive for a week and see how she does. Those guys know their stuff. Big difference from my experience with dealerships. Even showed me the rust with the endoscope.
 

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Newbie here to this forum, hello all, not a newbie to manual cars though.
Interesting post, sorry to hear of all your troubles. Did you ever try double or triple clutching and see if will then come out of gear? I switched tranny’s over the winter to a 2.98 first Tranzilla and I’m wondering if I have something going on similar to you. I miss second and third at times at high rpm shifting (6500) especially at the track after switching tranny’s. I had a Barton on the stock tranny and same unit moved to this tranny, didn’t have any shifting problems with the Barton on the stock trans (2.26 first ratio) so I doubt it’s shifter related. It may be spline lube related though, never thought of that. Never had this tranny to the track yet until yesterday. During burnout when I roll out and push clutch in when rolling out it sticks and it stays stuck in gear until the rpms come down, once rpms are under around 2 k it will come out of gear and also will come out of gear if I double clutch it. I shift at 6500 and occasionally miss second and third, it doesn’t grind it’s like hitting a brick wall, won’t go in gear until I clutch it again. Very curious what you end up finding to be the issue. I was going to ask what kind of lube your using, stock trannys like Mobil 1 Full Synthetic ATF, my Tranzilla uses 150SM Tranzilla fluid (a type of synchro mesh). But the Tranzilla does not like to shift cold or slow, it likes to be hot and shifted hard, by design they told me?? Anyways, I may be pulling my tranny if the oil change doesn’t help you, I’m hoping for you it does but doubting such. I hope you get it sorted soon. Another thing since changing transmissions is putting car in reverse, it doesn’t like going into reverse even at a dead stop, takes going to first most times first, stock tranny wasn’t like that. Clutch is original, 12,000 miles, never been apart and so far is holding 825 wheel at 17” 315 Street R’s at the track. Throw out bearing assembly is new too though so it could be the culprit as well but the theory of spline lube and a disk being pinned up against a rotating surface sounds very plausible. I just don’t want to pull my trans again, it’s no full doing such on jack stands :(
 

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@19dart66
Big thanks. I wasnt looking to get a new clutch, and probably wont replace anytime soon, But I just got that setup you listed for $299.(y)(y)(y)(y)(y):D:D:D:D:D
 

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Discussion Starter #94
Newbie here to this forum, hello all, not a newbie to manual cars though.
Interesting post, sorry to hear of all your troubles. Did you ever try double or triple clutching and see if will then come out of gear? I switched tranny’s over the winter to a 2.98 first Tranzilla and I’m wondering if I have something going on similar to you. I miss second and third at times at high rpm shifting (6500) especially at the track after switching tranny’s. I had a Barton on the stock tranny and same unit moved to this tranny, didn’t have any shifting problems with the Barton on the stock trans (2.26 first ratio) so I doubt it’s shifter related. It may be spline lube related though, never thought of that. Never had this tranny to the track yet until yesterday. During burnout when I roll out and push clutch in when rolling out it sticks and it stays stuck in gear until the rpms come down, once rpms are under around 2 k it will come out of gear and also will come out of gear if I double clutch it. I shift at 6500 and occasionally miss second and third, it doesn’t grind it’s like hitting a brick wall, won’t go in gear until I clutch it again. Very curious what you end up finding to be the issue. I was going to ask what kind of lube your using, stock trannys like Mobil 1 Full Synthetic ATF, my Tranzilla uses 150SM Tranzilla fluid (a type of synchro mesh). But the Tranzilla does not like to shift cold or slow, it likes to be hot and shifted hard, by design they told me?? Anyways, I may be pulling my tranny if the oil change doesn’t help you, I’m hoping for you it does but doubting such. I hope you get it sorted soon. Another thing since changing transmissions is putting car in reverse, it doesn’t like going into reverse even at a dead stop, takes going to first most times first, stock tranny wasn’t like that. Clutch is original, 12,000 miles, never been apart and so far is holding 825 wheel at 17” 315 Street R’s at the track. Throw out bearing assembly is new too though so it could be the culprit as well but the theory of spline lube and a disk being pinned up against a rotating surface sounds very plausible. I just don’t want to pull my trans again, it’s no full doing such on jack stands :(
Hey sorry for the late response. I did find recently that double clutch with revving the engine between clutch and shift would make a difference when downshifting and made it smoother. I've never found that before. Hope it helps identify what is happening. When getting stuck in gear, I have found that shutting off the car makes no difference, but if I pump the clutch it pops out.. with RPM dropping down almost to the point of stalling.

As TheOldGuy said, it seems like the clutch is not releasing properly
 

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I just ran across your thread GreenHornet15. I have the same issues on my 16 manual 5.7L. Only 16k miles on it and I’m the original owner. I have the Barton also.

Anyways, mine gets stuck in 1st on initial startup on flat or incline with e-brake on. Also gets stuck in 3rd when trying to downshift. I blip the throttle with the clutch in to rev match and I noticed it releases smoothly then. Also, when I push the clutch pedal to shift I can feel a pop or click in my pedal on my foot. I’m getting ready to remove the skip shift and Barton to have dealer look at it but I always know how this works.

I’ve read tons of posts since I started having this problem myself. I’ve read 1) cleaning the input shaft splines and contact areas of old grease and apply new grease(Moly or Urea grease). 2) replace pilot bearing if damaged when removing transmission 3) or could be the slave cylinder/throw out bearing.

I haven’t had any of the repairs done. I just have seen these repairs work for others.
 

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Discussion Starter #96
I just ran across your thread GreenHornet15. I have the same issues on my 16 manual 5.7L. Only 16k miles on it and I’m the original owner. I have the Barton also.

Anyways, mine gets stuck in 1st on initial startup on flat or incline with e-brake on. Also gets stuck in 3rd when trying to downshift. I blip the throttle with the clutch in to rev match and I noticed it releases smoothly then. Also, when I push the clutch pedal to shift I can feel a pop or click in my pedal on my foot. I’m getting ready to remove the skip shift and Barton to have dealer look at it but I always know how this works.

I’ve read tons of posts since I started having this problem myself. I’ve read 1) cleaning the input shaft splines and contact areas of old grease and apply new grease(Moly or Urea grease). 2) replace pilot bearing if damaged when removing transmission 3) or could be the slave cylinder/throw out bearing.

I haven’t had any of the repairs done. I just have seen these repairs work for others.
I'm going back in for another round after getting Dodge to open another case. As is mine, yours should still be under warranty and they should be able to figure out what's going on. even if it's a wear item like the clutch, they should be able to tell you that's the problem so you can pay out of pocket. I'll let you know when/if I get a resolution this time around. Good luck
 

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Discussion Starter #97
Hey guys

For those following along, I wanted to give an update. Dodge said they would pay for diagnostic fees to see if the clutch is the problem or be able to cover under "good will". After bringing the car to the Dodge dealership, I found I got bad information. They will only cover diagnostic fees if it's the transmission or something under warranty, which they can't verify without taking it out again.

Brought the car to independent dealership recommended here (Thanks John!) and they have been great. Pulled the trans for 1/4 of the cost of what the dealership would charge and found some fun stuff. #1 - the drivetrain center support bearing was damaged and falling apart. Maybe someone was doing some crazy launches or something before I bought it..
#2 and more importantly - the secondary plate was rusty and I could see the splines also had rust, as well as some on the pilot bearing.. So that being said, I'm going to replace the clutch, pilot bearing and slave cylinder while the trans is out and they clean up everything. I'm really hopeful this is going to make me happy and I can drop my Barton back in and drive with a smile all day as God intended.

The plan is to have them do the clutch, the slave and pilot bearing and try to get the drivetrain covered by our lovely friends at Dodge while I'm still under warranty.

At this point 3 years after my purchase, I considered trading up to something faster.. but I really would like to resolve this even for my own sanity.. don't ask.

I've included some not-so-great pictures of the plates, pilot bearing and slave cylinder. Where this gentleman's finger is, you would see some rust on the splines. Primary plate looked shiny and new.
:shakes fist at New England weather:

if people have suggestions for this climate to limit or prevent this kind of rust other than "don't drive it in the winter", please let me know.
 

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Discussion Starter #98
Hey guys

For those following along, I wanted to give an update. Dodge said they would pay for diagnostic fees to see if the clutch is the problem or be able to cover under "good will". After bringing the car to the Dodge dealership, I found I got bad information. They will only cover diagnostic fees if it's the transmission or something under warranty, which they can't verify without taking it out again.

Brought the car to independent dealership recommended here (Thanks John!) and they have been great. Pulled the trans for 1/4 of the cost of what the dealership would charge and found some fun stuff. #1 - the drivetrain center support bearing was damaged and falling apart. Maybe someone was doing some crazy launches or something before I bought it..
#2 and more importantly - the secondary plate was rusty and I could see the splines also had rust, as well as some on the pilot bearing.. So that being said, I'm going to replace the clutch, pilot bearing and slave cylinder while the trans is out and they clean up everything. I'm really hopeful this is going to make me happy and I can drop my Barton back in and drive with a smile all day as God intended.

At this point 3 years after my purchase, I considered trading up to something faster.. but I really would like to resolve this even for my own sanity.. don't ask.

I've included some not-so-great pictures of the plates, pilot bearing and slave cylinder. Where this gentleman's finger is, you would see some rust on the splines. Primary plate looked shiny and new.
:shakes fist at New England weather:

if people have suggestions for this climate to limit or prevent this kind of rust other than "don't drive it in the winter", please let me know.
Oh and apparently that second picture is NSFW 🤣🤣🤣 If anything I would think the 3rd picture was suggestive..
 

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That's kinda where I'm at. Dealership said he drove it for like a week and found problems shifting sometimes, but that it's as expected. Then he went on to say if anything he would replace the clutch but it was checked when they replaced the transmission and it looked fine, etc. etc. The clutch feels fine to me but who knows. Something seems to be keeping the input shaft in motion while the clutch is to the floor. There shouldn't be any resistance until the clutch is disengaged as far as I know. I'm trying to get dodge to cover a replacement since it's something the dealership mentioned and they're only cover costs for what the dealership considers an issue.
My '15 RT Plus M6 shifts a bit funky too.. I replaced the Shifter with a Barton.. Still there, I bought the skip Shift eliminator, Ive been told that will help GREATLY.. but as of yet Ive NOT installed it, its still sitting on my Passenger seat ! Hopefully one day Soon..
260169
 
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