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Has anyone successfully integrated a standalone ecu into the can bus system into these cars? Trying to find someone that may already have sniffed the can bus codes to save some time. Goal is to integrate the new ecu into the can bus system.
 

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2020 T/A 392, GoMango
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Well...Maybe but not without a bit of risk. What are you expecting as a result? There are likely much easier and less risky ways to accomplish whatever it is that you have in mind.
 

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Well...Maybe but not without a bit of risk. What are you expecting as a result? There are likely much easier and less risky ways to accomplish whatever it is that you have in mind.
Would just like all the functions of an aftermarket ecu in it. It’s a turbo car with the goal of keeping it streetable. Number one priority is to still have control of the electric steering with out it going into fail safe.
 

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2020 T/A 392, GoMango
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Would just like all the functions of an aftermarket ecu in it. It’s a turbo car with the goal of keeping it streetable. Number one priority is to still have control of the electric steering with out it going into fail safe.
Okay...A few more questions. What is your perception of "all of the functions of an aftermarket ECU"? You have a 2011 or later or you wouldn't have electric power steering. You are turboed so what is your kit and did it require a custom ECU? Are you also running a tuner of some sort and lastly, your power steering settings are run through your infotainment center and should be something like comfort, normal and sport or similar and are a function of the BCM. Have nothing to do with the ECU.
 

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Okay...A few more questions. What is your perception of "all of the functions of an aftermarket ECU"? You have a 2011 or later or you wouldn't have electric power steering. You are turboed so what is your kit and did it require a custom ECU? Are you also running a tuner of some sort and lastly, your power steering settings are run through your infotainment center and should be something like comfort, normal and sport or similar and are a function of the BCM. Have nothing to do with the ECU.
Yes it’s a 2015. I’d like the boost by gear, two step, launch, rolling two step, and ease of tuning along with an actual flex fuel car because I prefer e85 and still do long trips in the car. It’s a custom single turbo kit currently on HPTuners and and eboost2 I run for boost control. From the connector diagram I found it looking like it received a signal from the ecu for the speed. I knew someone that lost the control ability of the steering when he swapped but got around it through the fail safe.
 

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2020 T/A 392, GoMango
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The input you got for speed control has to be erroneous. The readouts are not infallible and we all get stuff that make you go WTF on occasion. I'd say you are just fine with your current setup.
 

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Holley has a stand alone system now that is highly adjustable, maybe they can be used together.



 

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2020 Dodge Challenger Hellraisin Scat Pack
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Would just like all the functions of an aftermarket ecu in it. It’s a turbo car with the goal of keeping it streetable. Number one priority is to still have control of the electric steering with out it going into fail safe.
Based on my what I recall from my working on CAN bus software just integrating an "external" ECU into the CAN bus will not let the ECU take over from the primary ECU. The primary ECU gets inputs directly from various sensors and can controi directly things like when to trigger a spark or turn on an injector -- and how long to leave it on -- and so on.

CAN bus can carry info like "ignition timing" but this is not what is being used the next time the spark is to be triggered but which was in effect some time in the past. Granted maybe not that much time but it is not current. IOWs your integrated ECU from the CAN bus will get only historical info. It can't play a role in what happens in the future. (CAN messages do not trigger coil activity or fuel injector activity.)

Google "can bus snooping" and you'll get hits on various snooping tools. Just did this but I know nothing about the ones that appeared in the search hits.

When I was working on CAN bus communication software and I needed to see CAN bus traffic I used the NEO VI Fire tool from Intrepid Control Systems (www.intrepidcs.com).
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Based on my what I recall from my working on CAN bus software just integrating an "external" ECU into the CAN bus will not let the ECU take over from the primary ECU. The primary ECU gets inputs directly from various sensors and can controi directly things like when to trigger a spark or turn on an injector -- and how long to leave it on -- and so on.

CAN bus can carry info like "ignition timing" but this is not what is being used the next time the spark is to be triggered but which was in effect some time in the past. Granted maybe not that much time but it is not current. IOWs your integrated ECU from the CAN bus will get only historical info. It can't play a role in what happens in the future. (CAN messages do not trigger coil activity or fuel injector activity.)

Google "can bus snooping" and you'll get hits on various snooping tools. Just did this but I know nothing about the ones that appeared in the search hits.

When I was working on CAN bus communication software and I needed to see CAN bus traffic I used the NEO VI Fire tool from Intrepid Control Systems (www.intrepidcs.com).
Gotcha I get what your saying but I’m not worried about main functions like spark because I will be going to a stand-alone not a piggy back. Leaning towards the MS3 pro because it allows me to program can bus outputs into the system so I was wanting to keep continuity between the old and new ecu into the can bus system. I do understand the basics behind can bus sniffing and was looking at that program but just wanted to poke my head out and see if someone’s done it before so I could save time if that makes sense.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Holley has a stand alone system now that is highly adjustable, maybe they can be used together.



Yes but it does not support integration into the can bus.
 

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With the additional info, I'm a little more clear about what you have in mind. This is more of a question than a suggestion but even though the MS3 provides can bus outputs, would it possibly be easier to just take engine control away from the stock ECU and splice it into the MS3? Just cut the ignition, injectors and IAC motor wires and connect them to the MS3 instead. Now it's controlling your engine and the stock ECU just thinks it is but it's not. As for inputs you can splice in and join some of them but possibly not all. The crank trigger, cam sensor, TPS etc. you can just splice in and share with the MS3. I don't think any of this would throw any codes and you retain functionality of those items that are unsupported by the MS3. This approach may be something that you have already considered and discarded but thought I'd throw it out there anyway.
 

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With the additional info, I'm a little more clear about what you have in mind. This is more of a question than a suggestion but even though the MS3 provides can bus outputs, would it possibly be easier to just take engine control away from the stock ECU and splice it into the MS3? Just cut the ignition, injectors and IAC motor wires and connect them to the MS3 instead. Now it's controlling your engine and the stock ECU just thinks it is but it's not. As for inputs you can splice in and join some of them but possibly not all. The crank trigger, cam sensor, TPS etc. you can just splice in and share with the MS3. I don't think any of this would throw any codes and you retain functionality of those items that are unsupported by the MS3. This approach may be something that you have already considered and discarded but thought I'd throw it out there anyway.
Yes I have thought about that but I would rather have the MS3 be the sole ECU and not piggy back it like that for a few reasons.
 

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I'd be interested as to how you get this accomplished and what it entails. I searched for procedures for MS3 installation but the results were pretty vague beyond the piggyback concept. The consensus, though, is that this is an awesome unit. Setup looks to have options for programming can bus outputs. Does that mean you have to log them first so that they are identifiable for your intended use? Do you have to be knowledgeable in the can bus language to do the programming for them or do you get some sort of walkthrough? Intriguing and inspiring all at once so please keep us informed as to how this plays out for you.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I'd be interested as to how you get this accomplished and what it entails. I searched for procedures for MS3 installation but the results were pretty vague beyond the piggyback concept. The consensus, though, is that this is an awesome unit. Setup looks to have options for programming can bus outputs. Does that mean you have to log them first so that they are identifiable for your intended use? Do you have to be knowledgeable in the can bus language to do the programming for them or do you get some sort of walkthrough? Intriguing and inspiring all at once so please keep us informed as to how this plays out for you.
So I have “helped” my buddy do a MS3 swap in his turbo lotus and he did use the can bus outputs on it for a few things but that is why I’m leaning toward the MS3 is because the ability to program can bus outputs. You do need to know the basics of can bus systems and I will need to sniff the can bus to be able to know the IDs and values it outputs. It’s a pretty lengthy process to do but it is not impossible. I’m planning. To move in the next 2 months so trying to get a solid plan down and have all the information I need so I can start the tear down once I get moved in. I will for sure keep everyone updated when I do this. I have contacted dodge and bosh about potential help and they have been less than helpful and in some cases rude to me for seeking help.
 
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