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I don't get it either. There are plenty of dealers that are NOT adding market adjustments to the MSRP.
Not around Southern AZ. Every dealer has a list of preloads. Some like playing semantics games with them. I was about to buy a Tacoma from a local Toyota dealer because they advertise "You only pay MSRP". Completely false. Not only do they have the standard $500 documentation fee, but they also add on window tint, door cup liners and door edge guards for another $500. Even so, many dealers have several thousand dollars in preloads so I was still interested until I found out that they also butcher the factory wiring to add a cheap aftermarket alarm and try to hit you up for more money to activate it when you get blindsided in the finance office. I tried six months ago to buy another Challenger from two dealers. They were in transit vehicles so they did not get them to butcher yet. They out and out refused to leave the car alone when it got here and even after agreeing to three of six add ons at one dealer, they insisted all preloads or nothing. So it was nothing. I'd love to have an honest dealer near me someday. Factories really need to put pressure on to clean up this thieving industry.
 

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One single pre load and I walk.
That's exactly how I used to buy cars. I'd tell them upfront, I'll pay MSRP minus rebates and no preloads. I understand they are in business to make money and they make plenty on my deals. That was fine until recently. There has never been a seller's market like there is now. And they know it. One of those Dodge salesman I spoke with six months ago said straight up that "we never lost a deal on preloads". So I said fine I'll buy the car. Five minutes later his sales manager calls me and says all preloads or nothing. So I guess they DO loose deals on preloads after all.
 

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2016 Dodge Challenger R/T Plus in Granite Crystal Metallic
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Not around Southern AZ. Every dealer has a list of preloads. Some like playing semantics games with them. I was about to buy a Tacoma from a local Toyota dealer because they advertise "You only pay MSRP". Completely false. Not only do they have the standard $500 documentation fee, but they also add on window tint, door cup liners and door edge guards for another $500. Even so, many dealers have several thousand dollars in preloads so I was still interested until I found out that they also butcher the factory wiring to add a cheap aftermarket alarm and try to hit you up for more money to activate it when you get blindsided in the finance office. I tried six months ago to buy another Challenger from two dealers. They were in transit vehicles so they did not get them to butcher yet. They out and out refused to leave the car alone when it got here and even after agreeing to three of six add ons at one dealer, they insisted all preloads or nothing. So it was nothing. I'd love to have an honest dealer near me someday. Factories really need to put pressure on to clean up this thieving industry.
I keep reading that the manufacturers are seriously considering tightening the reins a bit. I just RESERVED the new 300C (one of the lucky 2000) dealer isn't charging a market adjustment. Only MSRP. Same if you order a vehicle through them. I would consider traveling to find a better deal. Especially taking in to consideration the increased costs and the unwanted butchery to the car.
 

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I keep reading that the manufacturers are seriously considering tightening the reins a bit. I just RESERVED the new 300C (one of the lucky 2000) dealer isn't charging a market adjustment. Only MSRP. Same if you order a vehicle through them. I would consider traveling to find a better deal. Especially taking in to consideration the increased costs and the unwanted butchery to the car.
I usually buy my vehicles up in the Phoenix area 150 miles away since the dealers here, what's the word I'm looking for, oh yeah, suck. But in our current situation even the good dealers up there can't help but pad the bill now. I'm not willing to travel out of state for a car.
 

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No one is putting a gun to anyone's head and forcing them to buy. These transactions are mutually consensual and people are paying what they're paying voluntarily, for whatever reason.
True for people with plenty of resources and 10 cars in their stable where a price hike matters not. And true for middle income folks who have reliable cars and don't really need to trade right now. Not so true for new high school graduates needing a car to get to their new entry level job or low income folks whose old beater just won't run anymore and have to scrape some bucks together for anything to drive. But with the used car scammers piling on even more "paint sealant" and other junk than the new car scammers, that becomes a big problem in their lives. Yeah, but that Truecoat!
 

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True for people with plenty of resources and 10 cars in their stable where a price hike matters not. And true for middle income folks who have reliable cars and don't really need to trade right now. Not so true for new high school graduates needing a car to get to their new entry level job or low income folks whose old beater just won't run anymore and have to scrape some bucks together for anything to drive. But with the used car scammers piling on even more "paint sealant" and other junk than the new car scammers, that becomes a big problem in their lives. Yeah, but that Truecoat!
Very emotional. Very moving. But irrelevant. Don't buy if you don't like the terms. The "low income" folks you very callously refer to (and I'll play your game) aren't buying the high-end cars with paint sealants and GPS trackers and ceramic coating. I don't have plenty of resources or 10 cars in my stable (which itself is a pretty tired cliché) but I don't understand why you feel you have some right to tell other people how to spend their money.
Shake your head all you want. The basis of all economics is you make a decision whether you are better off taking the money out of your pocket or leaving it there. But you do so willingly.
That's exactly how I used to buy cars. I'd tell them upfront, I'll pay MSRP minus rebates and no preloads. I understand they are in business to make money and they make plenty on my deals. That was fine until recently. There has never been a seller's market like there is now. And they know it. One of those Dodge salesman I spoke with six months ago said straight up that "we never lost a deal on preloads". So I said fine I'll buy the car. Five minutes later his sales manager calls me and says all preloads or nothing. So I guess they DO loose deals on preloads after all.
You left off the end of the story, where they twisted your arm behind your back until you signed. Or did you walk?
 

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Used cars are the same right now . The market is everywhere . I've been hunting a challenger and I've been seeing same cars same options 37k miles with traffic damage hood roof and deck lid for $49k+ with dealer fees
Or the one I bought $45 k no fees mint with 7000 miles
I'm seeing them $5k -10k over market value and seems milage doesn't matter anymore to dealers . I'm glad I shipped around
 

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Very emotional. Very moving. But irrelevant. Don't buy if you don't like the terms. The "low income" folks you very callously refer to (and I'll play your game) aren't buying the high-end cars with paint sealants and GPS trackers and ceramic coating. I don't have plenty of resources or 10 cars in my stable (which itself is a pretty tired cliché) but I don't understand why you feel you have some right to tell other people how to spend their money.
You left off the end of the story, where they twisted your arm behind your back until you signed. Or did you walk
Sounds like you are the emotional one since you have jumped to the conclusion that I was talking about you. I wasn't. I was using a generality. Also, you defensively thought I was talking only about high end cars. Again, I wasn't. Had your reading comprehension skills been up to snuff you would have noticed phrases like "new high school graduates needing a car to get to their new entry level job or low income folks whose old beater just won't run anymore and have to scrape some bucks together for anything to drive ". I can only speak to what conditions we have here, and here it's not just high end cars that are marked up. You also missed the part where I mentioned that they mark up used cars with preloads and bogus charges even more than the new cars. Next, I never told anyone how to spend their money. if someone is wealthy enough to buy a $90k Heckcat toy to boost ego or show status in the world, I'm fine with that. It's his money to do with as he pleases. Again, my words showed a distaste for the ripoff charges, not for who spends money on what. And lastly, it was stated that I did walk away ("So I guess they DO loose deals on preloads after all ") so the answer to that question was right there also.
 

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Sounds like you are the emotional one since you have jumped to the conclusion that I was talking about you. I wasn't. I was using a generality.
I actually did't think any of that. I didn't recognize myself in any of what you said.

Had your reading comprehension skills been up to snuff you would have noticed phrases like "new high school graduates needing a car to get to their new entry level job or low income folks whose old beater just won't run anymore and have to scrape some bucks together for anything to drive ". I can only speak to what conditions we have here, and here it's not just high end cars that are marked up. You also missed the part where I mentioned that they mark up used cars with preloads and bogus charges even more than the new cars.
There's a car for every budget and if you are a new high school graduate starting a low paying job you probably shouldn't be at a dealership looking at new or late-model cars.

Next, I never told anyone how to spend their money. if someone is wealthy enough to buy a $90k Heckcat toy to boost ego or show status in the world, I'm fine with that.
Those are the two reasons you think people buy "Heckcats" (and BTW I really admire your modesty)? That's telling. For work I spend a lot of time in what you would call :low income areas" and I can tell you I see far more Scat Packs and Hellcats in these "low income areas" than I see in the suburbs.

Next, I never told anyone how to spend their money. if someone is wealthy enough to buy a $90k Heckcat toy to boost ego or show status in the world, I'm fine with that. It's his money to do with as he pleases. Again, my words showed a distaste for the ripoff charges, not for who spends money on what. And lastly, it was stated that I did walk away ("So I guess they DO loose deals on preloads after all ") so the answer to that question was right there also.
If someone is spending their money as they please, as you say, then why are you telling them that they're getting ripped off? They're spending their money as they please and you don't tell people how to spend their money. You can't have it both ways. And if you're capable of walking away when you don't like the deal, why do you assume other people aren't capable of it?
 

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There's a car for every budget and if you are a new high school graduate starting a low paying job you probably shouldn't be at a dealership looking at new or late-model cars.

Those are the two reasons you think people buy "Heckcats" (and BTW I really admire your modesty)? That's telling. For work I spend a lot of time in what you would call :low income areas" and I can tell you I see far more Scat Packs and Hellcats in these "low income areas" than I see in the suburbs.

If someone is spending their money as they please, as you say, then why are you telling them that they're getting ripped off? They're spending their money as they please and you don't tell people how to spend their money. You can't have it both ways. And if you're capable of walking away when you don't like the deal, why do you assume other people aren't capable of it?
Point one. who said high schoolers were looking to buy new or late model cars? I thought my point was clear that the entry level and low income folks should/would be looking for older low priced transportation cars.
Point two. It's called humor. Look it up.
Point three. One last time. I'm not telling anyone how to spend their money. I said they are getting ripped off when they pay markups because they are getting ripped off when they pay markups. It's not a dictate, it's a fact.
 

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No one is putting a gun to anyone's head and forcing them to buy. These transactions are mutually consensual and people are paying what they're paying voluntarily, for whatever reason.
This is true. And it’s because people have lost their f#*king minds. IMO. I see evidence of it in a lot more than car buying. Weird times.
 
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