[SFCR]

Keeping the valves (and other surfaces exposed to the combustion gases) clean is not from the presence of ethanol but from the detergents that are blended into the top tier fuels.

The best "detergent" is Techron. As I touched upon above if you can every once in a while run a tank or two of Chevron fuel with Techron can make a noticeable positive difference in how the engine runs.

If you are unable to get Chevron gasoline where you live/drive then consider using a bottle (or two) of Techron (as per direction on the bottle label) every once on a while. My recommendation would be a gas tank or two before a scheduled oil/filter service.

Indeed. The reason for my post is that we have a second tier fuel supplier named GoGas. They have 93 octane non-ethanol, and I'd like to use this in my SP. However, I do know that top tier fuels use more detergents in their fuels; above the EPA standard. I have used Techron for years and it seems to be good stuff. But, I wonder if one or two bottles of it would supply the same detergent levels as found in a tank of top tier fuel? I called the supplier for GoGas and no one could tell me what I wanted to know and they said they would call me back.

 

[Rockster]

Indeed. The reason for my post is that we have a second tier fuel supplier named GoGas. They have 93 octane non-ethanol, and I'd like to use this in my SP. However, I do know that top tier fuels use more detergents in their fuels; above the EPA standard. I have used Techron for years and it seems to be good stuff. But, I wonder if one or two bottles of it would supply the same detergent levels as found in a tank of top tier fuel? I called the supplier for GoGas and no one could tell me what I wanted to know and they said they would call me back.

Up to you of course, but I wouldn't bother to try to treat every tank of gasoline to a dose of Techron in some attempt to blend my own Chevron like gasoline.

Not sure what the ratio of the good Techron concentrate to X number of gallons of gasoline would be to approximate what Chevron gasoline has to offer.

You can experiment. Do the full Techron treatment, at least one bottle's worth mixed with gasoline according to the directions on the Techron bottle. If the engine reacts favorably to the treatment repeat a 2nd time. Then change the oil/filter.

If the engine reacts favorably then you know the engine had developed some deposits that were affecting engine performance. Now you know that at least before every oil/filter service running a bottle of Techron through the engine is a good idea.

If the engine doesn't react favorably then maybe the gasoline you are buying ain't so bad after all.

Or your usage helps keep the engine clean.

Over 3 or 4 decades, I have found that driving my cars (a '96 Mustang, 2006 GTO, a couple of Porsches) 50 miles (or up to couple of hundred miles) non-stop at highway/freeway speeds has had a beneficial effect on the engine. Most noticeably low end response seems better. The constant steady engine running appears to remove something that affects the engine and the engine responds by running better.

(So far I have not had the time to take either my 2018 Hellcat or my 2018 Mini JCW out on the open road for a 50+ mile drive. Both are relatively new cars with just over 7K miles on the JCW and not even 6K miles on the Hellcat.)

My regular usage of my cars doesn't involve 50+ miles (let alone 200 miles) of steady highway/freeway driving and I just don't have the time to do this on the weekend, not even one weekend a month.

But if your usage has you driving your car for say 50+ miles at steady highway/freeway speeds once in a while that might mitigate your use of a 2nd tier gasoline and Techron may not be necessary.

 

[SFCR]

Up to you of course, but I wouldn't bother to try to treat every tank of gasoline to a dose of Techron in some attempt to blend my own Chevron like gasoline.

Not sure what the ratio of the good Techron concentrate to X number of gallons of gasoline would be to approximate what Chevron gasoline has to offer.

You can experiment. Do the full Techron treatment, at least one bottle's worth mixed with gasoline according to the directions on the Techron bottle. If the engine reacts favorably to the treatment repeat a 2nd time. Then change the oil/filter.

If the engine reacts favorably then you know the engine had developed some deposits that were affecting engine performance. Now you know that at least before every oil/filter service running a bottle of Techron through the engine is a good idea.

If the engine doesn't react favorably then maybe the gasoline you are buying ain't so bad after all.

Or your usage helps keep the engine clean.

Over 3 or 4 decades, I have found that driving my cars (a '96 Mustang, 2006 GTO, a couple of Porsches) 50 miles (or up to couple of hundred miles) non-stop at highway/freeway speeds has had a beneficial effect on the engine. Most noticeably low end response seems better. The constant steady engine running appears to remove something that affects the engine and the engine responds by running better.

(So far I have not had the time to take either my 2018 Hellcat or my 2018 Mini JCW out on the open road for a 50+ mile drive. Both are relatively new cars with just over 7K miles on the JCW and not even 6K miles on the Hellcat.)

My regular usage of my cars doesn't involve 50+ miles (let alone 200 miles) of steady highway/freeway driving and I just don't have the time to do this on the weekend, not even one weekend a month.

But if your usage has you driving your car for say 50+ miles at steady highway/freeway speeds once in a while that might mitigate your use of a 2nd tier gasoline and Techron may not be necessary.

Great info...thanks! Years ago, I’ve done the same thing. I got on the interstate and took a 55-60 mile one way trip to “clean”out the engine. It seemed that it did the job. I only have 2293 miles on my SP, so no issues so far.

 

[ChristopherH0314]

Anyone tried using unleaded 88 (E-15) with the 5.7L HEMI? The manufacturer's recommended 89 is both difficult to find and expensive (~$0.40/gal over 87) where I live and I see no reason to pay for 93 when it wouldn't add any benefit (91 is almost nonexistent where I live and also very expensive if you can find it). I've tried 89, regular 87, and 88 with my 5.7L HEMI and the results are as such. 89 = engine running smoothly @ 21 MPG. 87 = engine running smooth but struggles a little under hard acceleration @ 19.6 MPG. 88 = engine running smoothly with no noticeable impact to performance over 89 @ 19.5 MPG. Since 88 is both abundant and cheap (~$0.15/gal under 87) where I live I've been running 88 recently with no issues so far. Curious if anyone else has used unleaded 88 (E-15) long term and noticed any side effects? I run a fuel system treatment through with every oil change so I'm not too worried about corrosion or gummed up lines. Since I only gain ~1.5 MPG more over 87 or 88 by using 89 the economics don't work out in its favor to pay ~15% more for fuel at a limited number of stations for only a ~7% increase in fuel mileage.

 

[ChristopherH0314]

Anyone tried using unleaded 88 (E-15) with the 5.7L HEMI? The manufacturer's recommended 89 is both difficult to find and expensive (~$0.40/gal over 87) where I live and I see no reason to pay for 93 when it wouldn't add any benefit (91 is almost nonexistent where I live and also very expensive if you can find it). I've tried 89, regular 87, and 88 with my 5.7L HEMI and the results are as such. 89 = engine running smoothly @ 21 MPG. 87 = engine running smooth but struggles a little under hard acceleration @ 19.6 MPG. 88 = engine running smoothly with no noticeable impact to performance over 89 @ 19.5 MPG. Since 88 is both abundant and cheap (~$0.15/gal under 87) where I live I've been running 88 recently with no issues so far. Curious if anyone else has used unleaded 88 (E-15) long term and noticed any side effects? I run a fuel system treatment through with every oil change so I'm not too worried about corrosion or gummed up lines. Since I only gain ~1.5 MPG more over 87 or 88 by using 89 the economics don't work out in its favor to pay ~15% more for fuel at a limited number of stations for only a ~7% increase in fuel mileage.

For reference, my 2018 Challenger R/T has the 5.7L HEMI MDS with 8-speed Automatic transmission.

 

[Rockster]

Anyone tried using unleaded 88 (E-15) with the 5.7L HEMI? The manufacturer's recommended 89 is both difficult to find and expensive (~$0.40/gal over 87) where I live and I see no reason to pay for 93 when it wouldn't add any benefit (91 is almost nonexistent where I live and also very expensive if you can find it). I've tried 89, regular 87, and 88 with my 5.7L HEMI and the results are as such. 89 = engine running smoothly @ 21 MPG. 87 = engine running smooth but struggles a little under hard acceleration @ 19.6 MPG. 88 = engine running smoothly with no noticeable impact to performance over 89 @ 19.5 MPG. Since 88 is both abundant and cheap (~$0.15/gal under 87) where I live I've been running 88 recently with no issues so far. Curious if anyone else has used unleaded 88 (E-15) long term and noticed any side effects? I run a fuel system treatment through with every oil change so I'm not too worried about corrosion or gummed up lines. Since I only gain ~1.5 MPG more over 87 or 88 by using 89 the economics don't work out in its favor to pay ~15% more for fuel at a limited number of stations for only a ~7% increase in fuel mileage.

Your car's owners manual is the best source of what gasoline to use. That is what octane of gasoline to use. And how much ethanol. My Challenger 2018 owners manual covers only the 6.2l and 6.4l engines. It says to use 91 (or higher) and with a max ethanol content of 15%. (My info is refineries err on the side of caution at least with E10 which is purportedly really E7 to E8 so E15 is probably a few percentage points less than E15.)

But of course the above is for the 6.2l/6.4l engines which I believe have higher octane requirements. Refer to your car's owners manual and use the octane Dodge calls for and stay below E15.

 

[ChristopherH0314]

Your car's owners manual is the best source of what gasoline to use. That is what octane of gasoline to use. And how much ethanol. My Challenger 2018 owners manual covers only the 6.2l and 6.4l engines. It says to use 91 (or higher) and with a max ethanol content of 15%. (My info is refineries err on the side of caution at least with E10 which is purportedly really E7 to E8 so E15 is probably a few percentage points less than E15.)

But of course the above is for the 6.2l/6.4l engines which I believe have higher octane requirements. Refer to your car's owners manual and use the octane Dodge calls for and stay below E15.

oh i know. just curious if anyone else has experimented with 88. I'm going to continue to experiment with it and post results after a year of continuous use so others can see if 88 is a viable, low-cost alternative.

 

[DieselDog]

oh i know. just curious if anyone else has experimented with 88. I'm going to continue to experiment with it and post results after a year of continuous use so others can see if 88 is a viable, low-cost alternative.

Anytime you can get non-ethanol gasoline, get it! The addition of alcohol to gasoline is like adding sawdust to your hamburger as Ethanol contains less heat energy (BTU’s) and therefore lessens the work the engine can produce unit per unit! Ethanol also burns colder and causes carbon deposits in the combustion chamber and valve faces.
If possible, always drive your car long enough to get to operating temps. Highway driving is the best, and try to get in a couple of WOT events to blow out some soot! Stop and go city driving and excessive idling is the worst especially during cold ambient temperatures. Never start your car and let it idle=BAD! After starting, allow about 10 seconds then start driving slowly under light throttle. It will warm up much faster and will burn its fuel much more efficiently. Also starting your car when it’s cold, if you can immediately put it in gear if an automatic transmission to slow the rpm while it builds up oil pressure. Never rev a cold engine!
All manufacturers tell you to use premium. I never agreed with that and never will. All US passenger cars are designed to run perfectly well on regular gasoline. I have filled ALL of my cars with regular (preferably non-alcohol) gasoline since I started driving in 1976, in everything from hot rods, Hondas, motorcycles, chainsaws, lawnmowers and scooters and drove/operated them hard with nary a problem!
The Maverick’s stations I have here in Arizona sell 87 non-alcohol gasoline and that’ll be my first stop after I take delivery of my new Challenger for its first fill-up.
BTW, Costco gas is Top Tier rated for those that might not know.

 

[GNBRETT]

According to their chart I can go from 93 octane to 102 octane with this additive? U dont really believe that do u? Sounds like snake oil to me bro.

If ur looking to cure knock then Boostane is a far better solution. Used Boostane for years. Never seen orange plugs....

I use a fuel additive called AcesIV... It gives you're fuel a octane boost effect and provides upper cylinder lubricantion... I am able to run a 91 octane tune with 89 octane with no knock and it doesn't turn my plugs orange like most octane boosters do... Really good stuff I think.

 

[SFCR]

An employee at GoGas told me that she was sure their fuel was equivalent to Tier 1 fuels, but the company opted not to pay the fees to be registered as a Tier 1 fuel.

 

[JTR18SHAKER]

Well if you all can watch the show Engine Masters on their testing of various levels of octane, they prove without a shadow of a doubt that octane does not increase power. I couldn't believe it, my Scat as per that manual says no lower than 91, I was going out of my way to get 94, not needed. I was paying up to $2.14 per liter, where 91 was about $1.54. Could have saved myself a bundle. Funny what I grew up knowing that higher octane equaled more power. At 70 years still learning.

 

[Dodgeguy]

Well if you all can watch the show Engine Masters on their testing of various levels of octane, they prove without a shadow of a doubt that octane does not increase power. I couldn't believe it, my Scat as per that manual says no lower than 91, I was going out of my way to get 94, not needed. I was paying up to $2.14 per liter, where 91 was about $1.54. Could have saved myself a bundle. Funny what I grew up knowing that higher octane equaled more power. At 70 years still learning.

Higher Octane does not in itself increase power but what it does do is increase resistance to detonation which allows for more advanced timing which will produce more power. If you use a lower octane you can induce detonation in which case the car will pull timing back thus reducing power.

 

[JTR18SHAKER]

Higher Octane does not in itself increase power but what it does do is increase resistance to detonation which allows for more advanced timing which will produce more power. If you use a lower octane you can induce detonation in which case the car will pull timing back thus reducing power.

I do agree, it makes perfect sense, yet but I believe in the Masters show they went as high as 43 degrees advanced and it didn't produce more power, but I have to watch it again yo be sure, all very interesting. I thought maybe from what little I know was as you increase compression you need more octane to prevent detonation?

 

[Dodgeguy]

I do agree, it makes perfect sense, yet but I believe in the Masters show they went as high as 43 degrees advanced and it didn't produce more power, but I have to watch it again yo be sure, all very interesting. I thought maybe from what little I know was as you increase compression you need more octane to prevent detonation?

Yes higher compression usually requires higher octane depending on timing advance.

 

[Rockster]

I do agree, it makes perfect sense, yet but I believe in the Masters show they went as high as 43 degrees advanced and it didn't produce more power, but I have to watch it again yo be sure, all very interesting. I thought maybe from what little I know was as you increase compression you need more octane to prevent detonation?

Engine Masters: I've only seen it on YouTube but I enjoy the show.

Timing alone isn't a power adder. However more timing can allow the engine to produce the power the engine designers had in mind. A higher compression engine can benefit from more timing. More compression is a wonderful thing. While it takes some energy to compress the air/fuel mixture the push back from the highly compressed air/fuel mixture makes up for this. But more importantly the pressure in the cylinder is already high so when combustion starts and proceeds the pressure arising from this has more effect and more mechanical energy is obtained from chemical energy.

With a number of cars I've data logged the engine I've seen with a stock engine timing advance to 36 degrees. This is 36 degrees before top dead center. Think about that. Combustion is started while the piston is still on its way to top dead center.

Some of my cars the factory stated -- in its engine details -- the engines were run at incipient detonation. High compression is so beneficial -- and one of my cars' engine had high compression the naturally aspirated one had 11:1 compression -- that is its worth the trouble to run the timing as advanced as possible.

One should use the octane grade of gasoline the automaker calls for. While it is unlikely using higher octane would be of any benefit -- more on this below -- one can lose performance using a lower grade of octane.

(And while I use the word performance this is not limited to just more power but includes better gas mileage and a more tractable engine with good throttle response at low RPMs. That 11:1 engine could tool around in town in 4th gear with RPMs hovering just over 1K. I didn't drive it like that on a regular basis -- its redline 7200 RPMs so it had some oomph at higher RPMs too -- but the engine was very tractable. Oh and it put out 217hp and 192 foot pounds of torque. So it was not a monster of an engine but still delivered great performance.)

As for using high octane grade of gas it is probably unlikely more octane would be of any benefit, but I note my Challenger owners manual calls for 91 (or higher) for both the 6.4l and 6.2l engines. That does suggest there might be something to gain from running 93.

While I never had a chance to try 93 in my Challengers it might have been interesting to try 93 to see if there was any noticeable benefit. Even if there was other factors would have played a role in whether I switched the car to a steady diet of 93 or just stayed with 91.