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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
Got the 70 up on the lift last night. Looks like the tranny leak is coming from the pan (again, even after I changed it). Each bolt was wet around the head and had drips of tranny fluid on them and then all around the pan on the top of the gasket you could see tranny fluid.

I "think" I'm the cause of my own issue. If I recall last year, I ran out of type 3 aviation gasket sealer I normally use on transmissions and I grabbed some Permatex ultra-black sealer I had and used that on the transmission pan.

Normally I wouldn't use a sealer on the pan but I find on the old classics the pans get deformed and no matter how much you try to straighten them they have some deformity to them so the sealer covers any gaps. I may just buy a new pan and then use no sealer. Not sure yet.

I still don't quite understand the large puddle of tranny fluid left under the car over winter though. Seems like a lot (yes, I know thin fluid spreads out and a little drip goes a long way, but this was excessive).

All else (front & rear seal on engine, valve covers, rear seal on intake, and rear tranny seal) are all bone dry which is good.

On the vibration, I just started looking into that, so no updates yet. The only thing I noticed is I have an optical illusion happening on the driveshaft. I'm fairly confident it's straight (from differential to tranny) but how the exhaust travels down the floor board it almost makes the driveshaft look crooked left to right. I need to do some measuring tonight just to confirm I'm fine.

Will advise more on all as I know more.

Jim
 

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Got the 70 up on the lift last night. Looks like the tranny leak is coming from the pan (again, even after I changed it). Each bolt was wet around the head and had drips of tranny fluid on them and then all around the pan on the top of the gasket you could see tranny fluid.

I "think" I'm the cause of my own issue. If I recall last year, I ran out of type 3 aviation gasket sealer I normally use on transmissions and I grabbed some Permatex ultra-black sealer I had and used that on the transmission pan.

Normally I wouldn't use a sealer on the pan but I find on the old classics the pans get deformed and no matter how much you try to straighten them they have some deformity to them so the sealer covers any gaps. I may just buy a new pan and then use no sealer. Not sure yet.

I still don't quite understand the large puddle of tranny fluid left under the car over winter though. Seems like a lot (yes, I know thin fluid spreads out and a little drip goes a long way, but this was excessive).

All else (front & rear seal on engine, valve covers, rear seal on intake, and rear tranny seal) are all bone dry which is good.

On the vibration, I just started looking into that, so no updates yet. The only thing I noticed is I have an optical illusion happening on the driveshaft. I'm fairly confident it's straight (from differential to tranny) but how the exhaust travels down the floor board it almost makes the driveshaft look crooked left to right. I need to do some measuring tonight just to confirm I'm fine.

Will advise more on all as
Maybe you could apply a little white teflon paste to the bolt threads. Plumbers use paste or teflon tape on threads where there is a chance of water seeping through treaded fixtures or fittings.The paste for your application would need to be rated for solvents. The expensive stuff I use on gasoline fittings always works perfectly; it takes only a small amount.
 

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The Hapco Pro Seal may not work for the leak. The person I talked to at the company indicated the sealant is designed for rubber seal leaks. She said "anything that is rubber".
 

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I dont know if you have used this but when i had my 72 satellite, i used this with cork gaskets. Seals pretty well and is not rtv.
284799
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 · (Edited)
I dont know if you have used this but when i had my 72 satellite, i used this with cork gaskets. Seals pretty well and is not rtv. View attachment 284799
This is almost like the type 3 aviation stuff I normally use; great stuff.

Talked with a buddy of mine this afternoon who works in a transmission shop, he told me permatex ultra-black is great for oil and coolant, not so much tranny fluid (no kidding :whistle:).

He said tranny fluid is tricky stuff and in most cases they typically don't use anything on the pans with cork gaskets. He said sealants are a PITA to remove, they can cause foreign material to get into the tranny which causes a lot of issues, and most importantly tranny fluid usually finds it's way through the sealant so you're back to where you started. Hmmm, sounds like someone I know. :unsure::unsure:

He noted best approach is to spend ample time straightening the surface of the pan around the bolt holes, thoroughly cleaning the surface of the pan and the transmission surface and then buy a high quality cork gasket and DO NOT over-tighten the bolts. Tranny fluid swells the cork gasket and is what causes it to seal.

So, totally my fault, tried to be clever and look where it got me. guess I'm replacing the pan gasket this weekend.

Jim
 

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This is almost like the type 3 aviation stuff I normally use; great stuff.

Talked with a buddy of mine this afternoon who works in a transmission shop, he told me permatex ultra-black is great for oil and coolant, not so much tranny fluid (no kidding :whistle:).

He said tranny fluid is tricky stuff and in most cases they typically don't use anything on the pans with cork gaskets. He said sealants are a PITA to remove, they can cause foreign material to get into the tranny which causes a lot of issues, and most importantly tranny fluid usually finds it's way through the seakant so you're back to where you started. Hmmm, sounds like someone I know. :unsure::unsure:

He noted best approach is to spend ample time straightening the surface of the pan around the bolt holes, thoroughly cleaning the surface of the pan and the transmission surface and then buy a high quality cork gasket and DO NOT over-tighten the bolts. Tranny fluid swells the cork gasket and is what causes it to seal.

So, totally my fault, tried to be clever and look where it got me. guess I'm replacing the pan gasket this weekend.

Jim
Might want to get a straight edge on that pan when you pull it to see where its uneven. Check on mancinis website and see what they have.
 

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Also some may not do it but a little rtv on the bolt threads will stop bolt leaks. Just have to find the right rtv.
 

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Discussion Starter · #30 · (Edited)
New transmission pan gasket / filter ordered (no one had any in town; very odd). Moved onto my vibration issue and started measuring angles.

Opening up a can of worms on this discussion. My opinion is only as good at that, so I'd love to hear other's take on it, but it looks like I have a serious driveline angle issue. I'm not an expert but I know enough to have a grasp on it. I am at a -2.2* on the tranny output shaft (measured at the engine drive pulley) and a -2.2* on the diff pinion shaft resulting in a -2.2* on the drive shaft.

Major No No, and thus explains my bad vibration while driving at any speed.

I'm fine with the 2-3* at the tranny output and the diff pinion shaft, the problem is they need to be opposite but equal (parallel to each other) if not a slight .5* difference on either end so the needle bearings in the u-joint properly lubricate. So, it may be as simple as adding a 4.25* - 4.5* shim between the leaf spring & spring seat to bring the diff pinion shaft to a +2.25* - +2.5*, which brings the driveshaft angle to +.25* - +.5* which is ideal (at least to my understanding). Never want a true "0*" on the driveshaft.

A lot depends upon if I have enough room to tilt the diff pinion shaft up 4.25* - 4.5*. If not, I'll need to do a combination of tranny & diff adjustment.

Then there is the argument about deflection of drivetrain under load. Since I don't race this or do drag strips I'm actually not going to worry about this part because to my understanding, in normal cruising there isn't a lot of deflection because you're not constantly nailing the gas. If I were to race or take it to the drag strip I'd need to decrease my diff pinion angle by .5* - 1* depending upon how much the diff climbs up when you jump on the gas to maintain the proper angles.

Now I need to source some shims.

If there are more experienced folks out there regarding driveline angles, I'd love to hear your take on all this. Let me know if you agree or disagree with my particular situation. I'm here to learn all I can.

Revision: Forgot to mention that at current ride height there is a 1.75" height different between the tranny output shaft and the diff pinion shaft (tranny shaft is higher).

Jim
 

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This is almost like the type 3 aviation stuff I normally use; great stuff.

Talked with a buddy of mine this afternoon who works in a transmission shop, he told me permatex ultra-black is great for oil and coolant, not so much tranny fluid (no kidding :whistle:).

He said tranny fluid is tricky stuff and in most cases they typically don't use anything on the pans with cork gaskets. He said sealants are a PITA to remove, they can cause foreign material to get into the tranny which causes a lot of issues, and most importantly tranny fluid usually finds it's way through the sealant so you're back to where you started. Hmmm, sounds like someone I know. :unsure::unsure:

He noted best approach is to spend ample time straightening the surface of the pan around the bolt holes, thoroughly cleaning the surface of the pan and the transmission surface and then buy a high quality cork gasket and DO NOT over-tighten the bolts. Tranny fluid swells the cork gasket and is what causes it to seal.

So, totally my fault, tried to be clever and look where it got me. guess I'm replacing the pan gasket this weekend.

Jim
Just another example of why so many do it yourself auto and plumbing guys like me are always nervous
 

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Discussion Starter · #33 ·
Due to advice from many transmission mechanics, I no longer want to use sealant on my pan, so I spent a good 3 hours yesterday cleaning / straightening my transmission pan and in the end, I'm just not happy with it. This thing appears to have had a rough life over the past 51 years with plenty of people pry off the pan for service. I'm probably close or good enough, but I just don't want to chance it.

I finally gave up and ordered a cast aluminum deep pan with an extra 2 quart capacity. This "should" resolve my pan leaking issues and it will provide extra cooling for the fluid. Should be here mid this week.

Jim
 

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Discussion Starter · #34 · (Edited)
Te TCI Aluminum transmission pan arrived yesterday, so I installed it last night.

Nice piece of hardware. The only thing I don't know, and won't know is I used a lube locker self sealing pan gasket and on the driver's side rear of the pan you can see the edge of one of the double rows of the sealing bumps on the gasket.

I'm not sure if this will cause an issue since it's a double row of sealing so it might still seal or if I'll need to remove the pan once I fill it if it leaks and install the flat gasket that came with the TCI pan.

Guess we'll find out. The good news is the new pan has a drain plug so I no longer have to deal with the traditional mess that comes with removing a transmission pan. (y)

My shims arrived, so I'm going to start on the driveline angle correction in the evenings this week but mainly on the weekend.

Jim
 

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Discussion Starter · #35 · (Edited)
Well, two things to report.

I put 2.5 degrees of shim in to redirect the rear diff up today. I can report that 75-80% of the shaking is gone. I knew I would probably have two maybe three tweaks to this, but I was pleasantly surprised where I am on the fix on the first try. Right now the shaking is really only noticeable around 35mp & ~50 mph but nothing like it was, before you could feel it at all speeds and it was a solid shake. It was fun causing around in it again not having to worry about all the shaking. Lots of thumbs up todays as I went around town.

Before adding more shims, the first thing I'm going to do is get the rear tires rebalanced to make sure they are not off slightly, if it still shakes at the noted speeds, then I will get the drive shaft balanced, and if that still doesn't take care of it, then I'll either add about .5 to 1 degree of shim or remove, not sure until I remeasure now that the car had a nice 15-20 mile ride to settle in the suspension & ride height.

2nd thing to report, I've had the tranny filled for a couple days now and no leaking, so that is good, time will tell I guess, but it's looking positive.

Jim
 

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Discussion Starter · #36 ·
After re-measuring this morning, I'm currently at 2.25* down on the engine / tranny, and 2.90* up on the rear pinion, which puts the drive shaft at .65* down. Using the spicer angle calculator that gives me 1.6* of u-joint angle on the front u-joint and 2.25* of u-joint on the rear u-joint.

All within spec of a u-joint since they can operate from .5* - 3.0* (max) but I am approaching the upper end of the spec on the rear u-joint and pretty much the sweet spot on the front so this is most likely the remaining shaking I am feeling.

so "If" balancing tires doesn't work, and "if" balancing the drive shaft doesn't work, then it looks like if I pull the .5* shim out of the rear (I have a 2* & .5* shim on each side) that I added I should then be 2.25* down in the front, 2.40* up in the rear, which puts the drive shaft at 1.15* down and my u-joint operating angles become 1.1* in the front and 1.25* in the rear which is about as close to each other as I'm going to get.

Err.... I think. :unsure::unsure:

Driveline angles can drive you crazy.

Jim
 

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I didn't realize you were fluent in a foreign language (everything you posted is definitely Greek to me .. o_O ), but glad you figured it out! ;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #38 ·
I didn't realize you were fluent in a foreign language (everything you posted is definitely Greek to me .. o_O ), but glad you figured it out! ;)
LOL BG

Well, I think I figured it out, but one never knows for sure until you physically make the changes and re-measure to see how close the calculations were.

Jim
 

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Discussion Starter · #39 ·
Busy morning, I got the rear tires balanced and dropped the drive shaft off at the specialty shop I use.

So apparently, early September is NOT the time to take your drive shaft in to be balanced.

The shop I use is buried with farm equipment shafts with all the farmers prepping equipment / doing maintenance for upcoming harvest in the next month or so. I'll get mine back in 2-3 wks., unless then have a small window between jobs where they can slide mine is as a filler.

oh well.

Jim
 

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Discussion Starter · #40 ·
So while I wait on the driveshaft I finally got around to putting the rear tires back on tonight. I "think" the issue or one of the issues may have been tire balancing. Won't know until I can drive it, and of course now if the vibration is gone I will never really know since the drive shaft is being balance too.

I say I think it may have been tire balancing because I noticed the driver's side rear had 4 times the amount of weight added today as it originally had. Originally there were 4 of the stick on weights they use and now there are 16 weights.

I called the tire shop and spoke to the guy who did the road force balance today and he noted he found it odd too that it took that much weight to balance it. He put a note in my record in case I still have issues for a possible warranty claim on the tire. If I still have issues they would get me a new set of tires and send my old ones in to BF Goodrich for evaluation. He's was wondering if belts shifted in the tire which is extremely rare.

He thinks it will now be fine, but I guess we'll find out.

Jim
 
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