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Header Install - Questions and Double Checking

18K views 40 replies 11 participants last post by  HemifeverAZ  
#1 · (Edited)
I have been researching headers for my Challenger R/T 5.7L for quite a while now. Reading through a lot of posts and forums, collecting information and finding the best methods and routes to go and what I have concluded is Stainless Works 2" Long Tubes with High Flow Cats (I need them for emissions) is the best header to go with for my purposes (already ordered and waiting for them to arrive). However, I discovered there's a lot more to headers than just swapping out my exhaust manifold, such as hardware, gaskets and coating/heat shielding. Here's where my questions come in before I start buying more stuff.

Hardware: I have read that Stage 8 Locking Header Fastener Kits are the best way to go in terms of hardware, expensive but they seem worth the expense. Is Stage 8 really the best hardware kit I can buy for the header install? Are there other options?

Gaskets: Stock/OEM gaskets seem to be the best route to go in terms of sealing and fitment on these cars. However, I have heard that Fel-Pro is also a good aftermarket gasket brand to go with and half the price of OEM, but does anyone have any opinions/experience on this? Should I just bite the bullet and get OEM despite the price? Also, I have a 5.7L and I read that if I got 5.7L gaskets, I'd have to modify them slightly to fit the Stainless Works Headers due to the small heat shield on the gaskets. I'd like to avoid having to modify anything unnecessarily so would I have any issues using 6.4L or 6.1L gaskets instead?

Coatings/Heat Shields: Due to how hot headers get and the inability to reuse the stock heat shields, ceramic coating seems to be the best route to go. I'm leaning toward Jet-Hot since they have a location semi-close to where I live. Will a ceramic coat keep the components around the headers safe from heat and not cause damage to anything? I was also told header wrap was an option but I read they'd damage the headers over time so I dismissed them quickly. What has everyone else done in terms of heat protection when it comes to headers?

Installation: I already know this is going to be a nightmare to install but I'd like to hear some tips and tricks for it. I will be installing this myself using a QuickJack. What should I consider removing or loosening to make the install easier? I've heard, read and seen so many things regarding install and modification that I'm not sure what to believe anymore, so any advice is highly appreciated. Also, I know the headers/exhaust manifold have a torque spec of 18 foot pounds, which I would really like to torque the bolts but looking under the car, it looks like there's not enough space to fit a torque wrench in there. Has anyone had any issues torquing the header bolts to spec and if not, how can I do it?

I believe that wraps up all my questions and concerns, I will reply to this thread though should I have anymore. I really appreciate any and all help I can get from the community.

Thank you.
 
#2 ·
I have Titanium Ceramic Coated Magnaflow headers on mine and it is the same amount of heat as the cast iron log manifolds produce. I also have high flow cats that provide same amount of HP as catless miss. I had OEM gaskets used on my instal. They loosened the motor mounts to move the engine around during the install.
 
#3 ·
I used stage 8 locking bolts and rt OEM gaskets. Rock solid. Other options ( other than mfr gaskets)? Didn’t even consider it.

I took my head off for installing shorties during my build, but there were a couple bolts still that I could not torque to spec due to access. However after having done the rest I had a pretty good feel for what it felt like. You will have to do the same.

I went with ceramic coating bbk shorties.
For install many have done it with out loosening motor mount, many do. I have even seen people take off the heads just for the header install. That’s what I did but I swapped out my heads and cam at the same time.
 
#4 ·
X3 to all above in OEM gaskets, fasteners, and ceramic. I ditched the factory heat shields. You will need a variety of swivels and extensions for your sockets. Thin wall sockets both short and deep dish. It’s been a while so I might not have this right but I recall using 13mm and 15mm a lot - someone please check me on that. Extensions I used were two 3”, two 6”, one 9”, and one 12”. I used a 3/8” drive.

Also, Loosening up the motor mounts one at a time and rocking the engine slightly with a jack is useful to get to the least accessible bolts. Make sure you brace the block so it doesn’t move on you when you are working on it. And this sounds silly - but don’t forget to re tighten the motor mounts - lol.

you will scrape your knuckles a lot so a loud radio with your favorite tunes is a must. It covers up your loud bitchin and calms you down quicker 😱
 
#5 ·
I went with long tube JBA ceramic coated headers, stage 8 locking bolts, and OEM gaskets. Although I took mine to a guy I've known since he was 6 and now runs his Dads shop.

I was there for most of the install, and they marked the engine location and took the motor mounts lose so they could rock the engine and get most of the bolts torqued and guessed on a few.

Then they put the motor back on the marks and torqued the mounts. I had to have 02 sensor extensions to reconnect my high flow cats, also JBA. So everyone so far has the same experience as I had, but someone else scrapped their knuckles.

I would add this I really would not have wanted to attempt it with out the hoist. I have had no problems other then a few exhaust codes, which I was warned about before hand.

I also put 3" Magnaflow Competition cat back exhaust behind that and they welded all the connections and hangers. It sounds awesome. Good luck, let us know how it goes for you.
 
#6 · (Edited)
I used the bolts that came with the headers they should be Grade 8 or the equivalent you do not need those locking types of bolts some of the locks you won't be able to even install. I changed mine without unbolting or removing the motor mounts it is more difficult but can be done. I recommend the DEI Titanium Exhaust wrap if you are concerned about heat and you very well should be, especially near the starter on the drivers side, they have the wrap in black now, and DEI has starter shield as well, they did not have the wrap in black when I did mine. On the headers the top center bolts are very tough to reach, I bought a mm brake bleeder wrench from O'reillys and bent it in the shape I needed to reach those top two bolts which you have to guesstimate torquing you cannot use the torque wrench on those.

Search Results for Header Exhaust Wrap (Or go straight to DEIs website)Heat & Sound Insulation Products | Design Engineering, Inc.

Now header gasket wise, if you just want to do the job once and be done with it, go with the Remflex exhaust gaskets that are for your year Challenger, you torque them to 20 Ft Lbs and you're done, they do not require Re-Torquing. Many are stuck on the OEM gasket like it is the best, but that was the gasket that was actually leaking on my 5.7 forcing me to change out the stock exhaust, so if OEM is so great? By the way that OEM gasket is made with 2 parts and one part being a built in metal shield, well the metal shield will end up cutting you trying to get the top 2 center bolts on each side tightened, or even started in the holes for that matter. If you actually do this installation yourself, do not use the OEM gasket, use the Remflex, do it once, and be done with it. You are not OEM any more, any way, going with headers, use a gasket that seals and stays sealed the first time. Been there, done that, all by myself! I bought the OEM gaskets and they are shelved, and so many times when I was struggling to get the bolts in place, I was so glad I was not cutting myself with the sharp metal edge of those gaskets. If you have a shop do it for you, use whatever you want, if they get cut or leak so what, the shop will warranty their work, if you do it yourself, trust me on this one! I did mine myself because the local shop wanted a thousand bucks to do it, that to me, was the price of another 5.7 upgrade, so I did it!

Remflex Exhaust Header Gasket Sets 6022 (If you go this route make sure of the Challenger year)

It is such a great feeling of accomplishment to do it yourself! Ry
252062

Passenger side is the most difficult.
252063

You cannot reuse the heat shields so get them out however you can they are expendable!
252064

Finally light at the end of the tunnel.
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252066

The thermal wrap makes a major difference in under hood heat and these headers are Ceramic Coated as well.

Hope this helps you!

I did not post this to start an argument, regarding OEM gaskets, I posted it to help Grimm Vance! :)

@Grimm Vance
FYI: The bolts that come with your new header are properly sized and the correct Grade that you need, however you will be reusing one of your stock manifold bolts with a provided spacer for the securing of the Dip Stick on the passenger side.
 
#7 ·
Ry, what exactly is this brake bleeder wrench you're talking about? i cannot for the life of me get to the top two bolts on the passenger side, and cant get to the top 3rd bolt from the front passenger side well enough to really get it tight. Right now, those top two passenger side bolts arent even in (since i couldnt get it), but i also didnt lift the engine like you. How the hell can i get to them????
 
#9 ·
I installed jba shorties,and high flow cats. used oem mopar gaskets for the 5.7 and stage 8 locking bolts. I did wreck a o2 sensor that would not break free so I had to get a new one no issue since the install. and your knuckles will heal over time:cool: good luck !
 
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#15 ·
I am extremely bad about re-purposing wrenches for my needs so I modified and made a wrench work for removing the O2 sensors, then after the fact found a 22mm/7/8" specialty tool for specifically changing the O2 sensor, and used that on my Jeep. Speaking of knuckles healing, I did have some souvenirs from the header installation adventure! Ry
 
#11 ·
I know everybody don't have a lift and access to a transmission jack, but when I put shorties on my 2013 RT, We just got the motor mounts the hell out of the way all together and had the engine rocking around on the trans jack. The header install was super easy rather than wreck our hands. Advice for others is that maybe you could work with a shop and aid them with the install and save a few bucks and not kill yourself in the process. Oh and yes... Remflex Gaskets.
-John
 
#12 ·
John, I was going to have a local shop do the job but they wanted close to a grand to do it, 9 times out of 10 from their attitude they would not have allowed me back to help out, but I did not ask about that. Loosing that much money for just labor was not going to happen as that was close to paying for my Limited Slip Differential at the time. I installed mine with the motor mounts still bolted in, it was more time consuming but doable for sure. Ry
 
#26 · (Edited)
@John Doe

Actually the best wrench I had was a 10mm wrench Honda VFR 700 Valve Adjusting wrench HONDA 07908-MB00100 which I had in my tool box from my motorcycling days, that was the wrench I had actually used on the drivers side. Which I had bent perfectly for the drivers side, on the passenger side it needed to be bent a little more, but I was tired and the hammer slipped off the end and actually hit the wrench tip itself and broke it clean off. That is why I ended with the brake bleeder wrench from O'Reilys.

After your post and looking for the brake bleeder wrench that I bent, I found the Honda wrench I had broken, and discovered it's part # stamped in the wrench handle was still available today, so I bought myself 2 of them just in case I have to do more header work.

In case you are interested? Ry

Best Price I found.
https://www.hondapartsnow.com/genuine/honda~valve~adj~wrench~07908-mb00100.html

This is what the wrench actually looks like.
Honda 07908-MB00100 - VALVE ADJ WRENCH | Boats.net
 
#27 ·
@John Doe

Actually the best wrench I had was a 10mm wrench Honda VFR 700 Valve Adjusting wrench HONDA 07908-MB00100 which I had in my tool box from my motorcycling days, that was the wrench I had actually used on the drivers side. Which I had bent perfectly for the drivers side, on the passenger side it needed to be bent a little more, but I was tired and the hammer slipped off the end and actually hit the wrench tip itself and broke it clean off. That is why I ended with the brake bleeder wrench from O'Reilys.

After your post and looking for the brake bleeder wrench that I bent, I found the Honda wrench I had broken, and discovered it's part # stamped in the wrench handle was still available today, so I bought myself 2 of them just in case I have to do more header work.

In case you are interested? Ry

Best Price I found.
https://www.hondapartsnow.com/genuine/honda~valve~adj~wrench~07908-mb00100.html

This is what the wrench actually looks like.
Honda 07908-MB00100 - VALVE ADJ WRENCH | Boats.net
I can definitely see how that'd help. I'm sure some local store has something like that in stock.

Did you also jack the engine and move it as needed? Not a fan of putting it at an angle like that on any axis but I haven't heard anything negative or destructive about it yet
 
#33 ·
Using the wrench you will not be torquing it but you can get close enough to seal it with no leaks! I tried the 3 jointed handle ratchet wrench myself it did not work and kept slipping off the bolt risking damaging the bolt head. First off you need to do this not frustrated, walk away from it, and re-approach it later very calm. Once you get the wrench bent to the proper angle to reach the bolts the rest is just getting your hand in there to pull or push the wrench handle, trust me you can do it.
 
#34 ·
This is a picture of the Honda wrench.
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You can see why it works by its design. i do no have one but I made one by welding a very short socket to a metal stub and then welding another 10" long, 3/8" diameter rod to the stub. Works just like the Honda wrench in the picture. I don't have it to show you because it is in the club tool box for others to use. If you go crazy, i can mail it to you.
-John
 
#38 ·
I see this is a few months old so my advice might be too late. However, as a person who has had 2 recent cars with headers installed on them (but NOT a Challenger) I can tell you that the extra money I spent for copper gaskets on my daily driver - the 3d set of gaskets for this car - seem to work the best. No leakage. Hope this helps!
 
#39 ·
as bad as getting to the top 2 bolts was , it wasn't as bad as putting the retainers and clips on the stage 8 lockers! really need to be calm and a couple of mixed drinks didn't hurt , ya can't see what your doing all the time so I just got comfortable and let my fingers do what my eyes couldn't see. the clips were a @#$#$@%&&** < insert your favorite curse word here.
 
#40 ·
I just want to say that all of the advice I have gotten on this thread has helped me tremendously and will definitely be used in the future (by myself and others doing the same project). I however had to cancel my order for headers since another upgrade opportunity had presented itself that I'd rather have and they hadn't shipped the headers to me after almost 4 months.
 
#41 ·
want a quick turn.. he makes them locally hear in the USA.. hand made..

thats where i got mine.. i was able to see how they where made last week on vacation. AMAZING>